NEWSLETTER FROM NSW SHOOTERS PARTY January 27 2004
CD
Here's some great infomation on NSW Police inspections of your firearm
storage and you storage requirements. Well worth the read.
CD
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NEWSLETTER FROM THE OFFICE OF JOHN TINGLE MLC January 27 2004
NEW ARRANGEMENTS FOR SECURE STORAGE INSPECTION
Changes have been made to the system under which police may come and inspect
the storage arrangements for your firearms.
Few things have brought me as many complaints as the current inspections of
firearm storage by police. I have been receiving up to 30 messages a day
from licensed shooters, who have had unfortunate experiences with these
inspections.
The main complaint is of police turning up without having made an
appointment, and arriving at inconvenient times, including breakfast and
dinner time. In the majority of cases, the people who have contacted me
have explained to police that the timing is inconvenient, but, far too
often, the police officers have insisted. In several cases reported to
me, they have even said if they were not admitted to the house, they would
go and get a search warrant. This is blatant bluff, because a search
warrant would be most unlikely to be issued so they could inspect firearm
storage. But just about all the people who contacted me said they felt
intimidated by the unexpected arrival, and the attitude of the officers, and
so admitted them.
In addition to concern about these unannounced visits, was the fact that
some police also wanted to inspect all the firearms in the licensee's
possession. This often turned out to be a long drawn-out process, taking
a long time. In the case of one person who contacted me, it took police
two-and-a-half hours to inspect his storage, check all his eighteen
firearms, and then sit down and write all the paperwork involved.
The situation has been made worse in many firearm inspections, because the
list of guns the police bring with them is often wrong. It is derived
from the Firearms Registry database, which is known to be inaccurate. I
have had reported to me instances of firearms the licensee has never owned
being attributed to him; or firearms acquired up to two years before not
being shown on the list. Incorrect serial numbers and calibres are
common; and incorrect descriptions of the firearm - i.e. an under-and-over
shotgun being shown as a side-by-side, and a 12 gauge shotgun being shown as
.12 calibre. It all takes time to unscramble!
A great deal of confusion has been created. Licensed pistol owners knew
that there had to be an inspection of their pistols under the COAG
agreements of December 2002, and, in most cases, the inspecting police also
checked their safe storage facilities. Then it became clear that there
was to be an inspection of all firearms safe storage; and police in many
local commands also announced that they would be doing a check of longarms
as well.
This caused a flurry of queries to my office as to whether there was some
sort of crackdown on licensed firearms owners - an anxiety which, I have to
say is quite understandable.
STORAGE
To try to clarify the situation, I asked the Police Minister's office to
arrange a meeting with police and agencies involved, and that meeting took
place last Friday afternoon, January 23. It was chaired by the
Director-General of the Police Ministry, and attended by senior officers of
the
NEWLSETTER FROM THE OFFICE OF JOHN TINGLE MLC 27.01.04 Page
2
Police Minister, the Deputy Police Commissioner, and the Firearms Registry,
with the Chairman of the Shooters Party, and myself.
It has always been my contention that the Firearms Act places an obligation
on police to make an appointment before coming to inspect a licensee's
storage arrangements. Some police have questioned this, and a major
intention of Friday's meeting was to sort this out.
I tabled a legal opinion by a senior Sydney barrister, which confirmed my
belief; and the officer from the Firearms Registry, who has a legal
background, agreed with the opinion. Senior police at the meeting pointed
out that it could be very difficult for police to be punctual for an
appointment they had made with a licensee, because it was impossible to
predict what other things might arise that they had to attend to.
After considerable discussion it was agreed that police should at least
attempt to make an appointment at a mutually convenient time. But because
of the problems of keeping a precise appointment, police will now contact
licensees to arrange an appointment to be kept somewhere within an agreed
span of hours - say: sometime between 6.00 p.m. and 9.00 p.m. - or whatever
span of hours was convenient to both parties.
Police officers present pointed out that police are conducting these storage
inspections when they can fit them in with other duties; and that there
might be times when they did arrive at an address without having made an
appointment. If that time was inconvenient for the licensee, the police
would respect that, but would seek to make an appointment for a return
visit.
FIREARM INSPECTION
I then raised the matter of police announcing that in conjunction with the
storage audit, they would also inspect every longarm in the state. The
Act requires that Category H licence holders have their pistols inspected
regularly, and, separately, Section 19 (2) c) of the Firearms Act requires
Licence Holders to allow inspections of their storage. It does not
mention inspection of their firearms.
I pointed out that there are almost 660,000 registered firearms in the
state, and that it would take police an enormous amount of time to check all
of them. Since all these audits are supposed to end by the end of May, I
asked why it was being attempted.
The Registry Officer present said the firearm inspection was intended only
to try to correct the errors in the database, by checking which firearms
each licensee had. It had not been intended to be a search operation to
catch people out.
The meeting then agreed to my suggestion that if the firearms inspections
were merely to correct the database, licensees should be given a form to
fill in, on which they entered all details of their firearms. It seemed
to me this would save a great deal of time and error, and also remove, from
the police visits, the feeling that firearm owners were under suspicion.
From the LAFO's point of view, filling in this form is no more arduous than
annually supplying their shooting club with a list of their firearms, to
validate their membership. The form is being drawn up by the Registry
and should be available very soon. It will be given to licensees by
police inspecting storage, to be filled in and returned later. When the
form is ready, I will attach it to a newsletter, to get it to people on my
email list as quickly as possible.
In the meantime, I thought it might be helpful to explain - again! - what
the requirements are for a licensee in regard to inspections and to safe
storage, and, hopefully, dispel a few myths!
NEWSLETTER FROM THE OFFICE OF JOHN TINGLE MLC 27.01.04 Page
3
WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO DO?
INSPECTION VISITS
Police are supposed to contact you, to arrange an appointment for inspection
of your storage.
If they arrive without an appointment, at an inconvenient time, you are
absolutely entitled to say that it is inconvenient, and refuse access.
But it would be eminently sensible to work out a time that would be
convenient, and acceptable to both parties, within a span of several hours
on the nominated day.
Police don't want to waste time going to homes where the licensee is absent;
or making repeat visits. They do actually have more important police work
to do. So a little co-operation - from both sides - will make things much
easier for everybody.
Make sure that your firearms are properly stored (see next section) and that
the keys are not left hanging on a hook by the front door (this got one dumb
licensee into trouble); and that no unauthorised (unlicensed) person can get
access.
If the police officers wave all this aside, and insist on entry, make sure
you get their names and the station from which they came, and make a formal
complaint. During last Friday's meeting, when I mentioned some of the
problems that had occurred during unexpected inspections, police were able
to tell me they had not received a single formal complaint. Not
surprising, really - it seems all the unhappy people directed their
complaints to me!
STORAGE
Most licensees are unsure what the requirements for safe storage are. There
seems to be no shortage of bush lawyers, who have never read or seen the
Act, and who give people the most astonishing "information" about their
storage. So here are the facts:
From the Firearms Act 1996
_____________________________
Section 40 Category A and Category B licence requirements
1) The holder of a category A or Category B licence must comply with
the following Requirements in respect of any firearm to which the licence
applies:
(a) when any such firearm is not actually being used or carried, it must
be stored in a locked receptacle of a type approved by the Commissioner and
that is constructed of hard wood or steel and not easily penetrable,
(b) if such a receptacle weighs less than 150 kilograms when empty, it
must be fixed in order to prevent its easy removal,
(c) the locks of such a receptacle must be of solid metal and be of a
type approved by the Commissioner,
(d) any ammunition for the firearm must be stored in a locked container of
a type approved by the Commissioner and that is kept separate from the
receptacle containing any such firearms
_______________________________
There is more, but those are the relevant parts of the Section.
Note:
The section accepts either hard wood or steel for the safety cabinet.
Some police carrying out storage inspections have insisted that the cabinet
must be of metal. This is not true.
NEWSLETTER FROM THE OFFICE OF JOHN TINGLE MLC 27.01.04 Page
4
The section does not say how the receptacle is to be fixed, although
commonsense would suggest something like dynabolts. Some police have told
licensees they don't have enough dynabolts fixing their receptacle to the
building. Under the Section, there is no set way of "fixing" it.
The section does not require the ammunition locker to be fixed to the
building. Some inspecting police have insisted the ammunition locker must
be bolted to the building. Commonsense would suggest fixing it in some
way that made it hard for somebody to steal it, but it is not a requirement
of the Act. The Registry has confirmed to me that, say, in the case of a
box or tool chest used to transport ammunition to the range, as long as it
is locked, it complies with the law.
The section does not require the disassembly, such as removal of bolts, of
firearms in storage. This was a requirement in a former Act, but was not
carried forward into this Act, when it was pointed out that some firearms
are virtually unable to be disassembled. Some police have warned licensees
that they must remove bolts. Not true.
I have gone into this at length, because I am continually amazed at how
little most licensees seem to know about their rights and their
responsibilities. I don't know what more I can add!
GOOD MEDIA - FOR A CHANGE
This Newsletter is specifically about the outcome of last Friday's meeting,
and what I hope will be more user-friendly arrangements for inspections.
But I must draw attention to a newspaper article, which, I trust, every LAFO
has seen.
Page 12 of the Sydney Morning Herald News Review Section, yesterday, January
26, headlined:
"Blaming gun owners a semi-automatic response".
The feature is by Robert Wainwright, who seems one of the very few
journalists in Australia capable of taking an objective and informed view of
the firearm question. He sought material from me for this article last
November, and it has been long in gestation. He has done his homework,
even attending a meeting of a hunting club, and this is the first article I
have seen for a long, long time, which presents the shooter's point of view
fairly and without the usual sneer.
If you missed it, it will be available for a short period on:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/01/25/1074965433987.html
Don't miss it!
John Tingle MLC
The Shooters Party Parliament House Sydney 2000
Ph.: (02) 9230 3059 Fax: (02) 9230 2613
Email: cti...@parliament.nsw.gov.au
Shooters Party website, for info, Newsletters and sound bites:
Seb
aspects of the law? I'm beginning to wonder how they enforce these laws when
they don't even know they exist.
Just out of curiosity I rang my 4 closest police stations (two of which are
the very large) and asked whether it was legal to own replica firearms.
Every single one replied to me that they were absolutely certain it was
legal as long as the replicas were not taken out of the home. This would be
the reasonable assumption and most peoples belief of what the law is but
unfortunately no. Now I hardly live in a bumpkin town and I find it hard to
understand why these laws exist if not only is there no support for them but
no knowledge of them in the law enforcement community. With a population of
roughly half a million people being one of the largest cities (outside
capitals) in Australia, wouldn't you think the law would be a little more
informed?
How can a police officer in good faith arrest a civilian for not kowing
about a law that they themself did not know about? Seems to me if they have
to check if something is illegal before they make the arrest this is clearly
neither a just nor effective law. Watch out when you go to paddy's markets
in Sydney or any market for that matter, that cap gun you buy for Timmy may
land you a maximum 14 years in prison. Even if you are most likely be given
community service it is still a felony record.
~Seb
"CD" <loco_d...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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CD
news:401677d4$0$1734$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
Unfortunately your correct Seb, If it looks like a real gun, even if you've
brought it at your local toy shop, you can be busted for having a replica
firearm.
Seb
Yeah I know you can be, but you won't be unless they actually raid your
house. It seems a vast majority of police aren't aware of the law.
~Seb
Nathan Perrott
gone where you used to walk into a gunshop, give them your money and walk
out with your gun. I already have six rifles so I do not see the sense in
having to send in an application to buy another. There 28 days cooling off
period is a load of shit as I have now been waiting 49 days. I have made to
phone calls to the registry and they only seem to be processing about a day
worth of PTA in a week. What a joke.
I think the government needs another buyback. On THEMSELVES.
"CD" <loco_d...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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Seb
regularly waiting up to 3 months for them. Funny how it seems they don't
have to obey the law and we do huh?
I think that is the most meaningless sections of the law out of the whole
thing, PTA for second and subsequent arms. They are likely processing
hundreds of thousands of PTA's weekly for absolutely no demonstratable
purpose with tax payer monies.
What other conclusion is there to draw other than they are simply trying to
slow down the industry to stunt it's growth?
~Seb
"Nathan Perrott" <nper...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
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