Another Ficht bites the dust...

I ran it 20 hours last summer and at the end of the year the carbon
buildup was bad. The plugs were black and there was carbonation on the
prop (in the exhaust). I was concerned and followed this forum and spoke
with OMC to find out about the new upgrades.

I talked to the dealer and asked him to order a kit. I followed up with
him and brought the boat in during the first week of June for the
upgrade. It sat in the dealer's lot waiting for the upgrade kit for 3+
weeks (the kit was supposed to arrive the week that I dropped off the
boat).

The dealer installed the kit and did a quick water test (and computer
test). Everything seemed fine. I took it back to my lake and tried it
out the next morning. It died after five minutes. The next weekend I
towed it back to the dealer. Monday morning they opened it up and found
a scuffed cylinder (due I believe, to failed piston rings).

It has been at the dealers for two weeks. The new powerhead is on order
from OMC. Their is no estimated delivery date. The powerhead is on back
order. The dealer says that they are doing everything they can. I called
OMC today. It took four attempts due to high call volume (???). I spoke
with a rep and they said that they would have a manager call me.

I cannot sell the boat (I could, but I would lose a lot of money). I
actually like the engine and it seemed to run well last year (other than
the carbon build up). I just want my boat back and for it to work
properly. My summer and several weeks of vacation are much less fun
having no boat (that's why I bought the boat - to use it ;-)

Our boating season in Canada is short (at least for watersport
activities). Two thirds of this year are wasted and I have little
confidence that I will see my boat till late August.

I am leaving on vacation tomorrow morning with no boat and two unhappy
children (but an empathetic girlfriend).

If there is anyone from OMC out there listening? Contact me
(edh...@ca.ibm.com). Make me happy.

Ed Hood.

Bro says your dealer should step up to the plate and make it right for you.
Dealers have more "pull" than one would believe, but it takes some "push" on
your part to make things happen at a dealership. Why? OMC pays dealer claim
s-l-o-w.... or so my brother says. ( maybe that's why he still says New England
won the last Super Bowl )
BK

Did you look at any other motor's before you bought the boat ?

What kind of performance/fuel economy are you getting ? Top Speed ?

Thanks
Rich

Edward Hood wrote in message <37A1DC00...@ibm.net>...

Contrary to the other post, OMC bends over backwards to get
the '98 FICHTS taken care of. They also pay the dealer's
warranty claims within a week if done by computer and 3
weeks if done by hand.

Bill Grannis

service manager

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

Regards,
Dan

I told you all it was a piece of CRAP!

I hear the same story from LOTS of Ficht owners around the launch
ramps here. Backordered, backordered...no parts....no service.

Larry...no thanks!

Hmmm...What gives. All the pro-OMC and pro-Merc guys say Yamaha is
the one that doesn't have the parts. Oh well. I guess if they don't
break down.....errrr.....I'm going to bed now. I hate to sound like a
Yamaha salesman.

Jeff

Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers. Please respond in Usenet.

In our country, Johnson's are a no-no, never, over my dead motor.

Tan PS

The biggest problem OMC is having with the 150 & 175 FICHT engines is
soot build up. Soot is very abrasive and can do damage to the cyl walls.
The new updates and new oil seems to take care of the problem with an added
bonus of improved power output.

Please be patient with the American outboard builders (yes, Mercury is
having
their share of problems too). All of the outboard manufactures are having
the
same problems that the automotive industry had in the '70s (even Yamaha).
Outboard manufactures just don't have as much time to get it right.
Remember the '70s? You couldn't buy an American car that ran right.
The plus side of this whole thing is that we
aren't having problems with the 90-115 and 200-225 FICHT engines.

Carl G. Craver
Evinru...@home.com

That's exactly the type of sentiment that Suziki, Yamaha and Honda want to
hear. They only need a small advantage for a few years to work their magic.

The brand names of the best two selling cars in the U.S. belong to Honda and
Toyota. There is a fairly direct correlation between that fact and the U.S.
auto industry performance of the 1970s.

You can ask for patience, but what you'll get instead is gritty competition
where mistakes are paid for dearly with market share.

Rich Stern

I would be not so sure. A friend of mine who runs a water taxi bussiness
had a 115 that sufferred exactly the same fate as described. The down
time bloody near ruined his bussiness. In the end he told his dealer to
take the damm motor back and give him a normal carburretted Johnson
which they did. This is working fine. He is now seeking compensation for
the loss of revenue on his bussiness.

Rgds Steve D (NZ)

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Carl G. Craver
Evinru...@home.com

Dan Krueger wrote in message <37A23A82...@mindspring.com>...

But you could buy a Japanese car that ran well.

But it rusted out early.

Fortunately, the healthy competition between manufacturers in the
global marketplace has caused all of them to improve product on
all fronts. The poor running and corrosion are well in the
past.

-- -- Marcus. ( be...@mail.med.upenn.edu )

But it would be a Japanese car. When possible, I like to see my dollars go
towards the salaries and benefits of American workers.
--

Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
A society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.

Sure. I like to support American workers as well. More importantly,
as a consumer in a free market (as free as our government would
allow), I like to see my dollars going towards buying what I perceive
to be the best product. I sure do see a lot more Hondas and Toyotas
running around from the early 80's vintage than I do Fords and GM's.

I agree. By supporting the best product, I help the inferior
product improve to where they catch my attention for the next
purchase. It's very Darwinian.

Not to take away too much from that point, but that may be a
demographic thing. Depending on where I am, I may see a lot of
American cars from the '80s, or a lot of "foreign cars" from the
'90s, or a lot of 4WD trucks and Subarus from the '80s. People
drive what they drive, not always for reasons of "quality".

I *always* like it when Marcus agrees!

Granted, it could be a demographic thing. I *never* used to see
Hondas (or any import for that matter) in my grandparents town
North/Central Ohio, but that is no longer the case. I would guess
that imports fared better in metropolitan areas than rural areas, and
they may still. But, I would argue that resale values of Hondas and
Toyotas of that vintage show they are in higher demand than those of
the American cars. Perhaps that higher demand could be attributed to
the higher quality of the vehicle?

Yes, but these are American cars! The GMs are mostly made in
Canada....(c;

Larry....Buy American.....and get SCREWED!!
1980 Pontiac Bonneville Brougham DIESEL....I got screwed BIGTIME!
Cost me over $18,000.....NEVER AGAIN.

> But it would be a Japanese car. When possible, I like to see my dollars go

I have read quite a few statistical surveys that show that most
Americans will spout this slogan over and over but their buying habits
show that they do not live by it at all.

True marketers don't listen to what you say, they watch what you do.

DAVe

...which doesn't matter much for automotive profits, since 6 or 7 of the top 10
selling vehicles are classified as trucks, where the US dominates. In fact,
American trucks waffle-stomped the Japanese manufacturers in trucks.

We used to give employees a higher car allowance for "American" cars. That was
until one of them asked us which was the American car:

- A Dodge Intrepid built in Canada, with a Japanese engine
- A Honda built in Ohio, with a Japanese powertrain.
- A Ford built in Mexico

Having just bought another Japanese outboard (that's 4 out of 7, so far) I have
every confidence that the American manufacturers will prove formidable
competitors to all comers in the long run. They continue to lead in all sorts of
packaging and other consumer features, and innovate in the form of FICHT and
other technologies. Like the American car companies of the late 80's, they'll
learn to improve some of the reliability/durability issues. It's not like they
don't know who W. Edwards Deming is.

I think the more accurate reason is "percieved value" which usually
includes consideration for price and quality (among others like style
and status).

DAVe

Virtually all the Japanese cars look alike to me. I couldn't tell a
Toyota from a Lexus from a Datsun to a Kirin. Homogenized. Blech.

Yup.

The evening news is where they begin with 'Good evening' - and then proceed
to tell you why it isn't.

> Homogenized. Blech.

It's easy. You can look for the subtle differences in markings and
the bigger differences in behavior.

The Datsun is that dented, rusty hunk of robot poop with the "moon
rock" hubcaps that just cut you off trying to get to the shoulder
for another bout of the "let's look under the hood" ritual. The
Lexus is that bright, shiny, cream-colored vehicle with the tinted
windows and gold accents that just cut you off trying to get to
the exit after the "talking on the cell phone not reading the road
signs" ritual.

Sometimes you may see a Lexus on the shoulder too, with a Crown
Vic or Caprice engaging it in a bout of the "we don't just give
speeding tickets to Mercedes and Corvettes anymore" game.

Thanks...are you perchance working on a complete guide to Japanese cars?
Usually there is a new Lexus on display at the Jax Airport. I've looked at
the various models from time to time and also the price stickers and walked
away laughing.

Don't talk unless you can improve the silence.

That's a good thing. After all, if American workers didn't get paid,
they wouldn't be able to pay their taxes to support someone who just
doesn't want to work, and who's taking full advantage of the government.
Welfare only works if there are enough people paying the tab.

Dave

While early 80's American cars suffered from poor quality control, and
some design quirks (This was when cars suddenly "downsized", due to
sharply rising gas prices), Jap cars had a serious problem with body
rust. If you live in a climate where salt is in the air (Sea coasts, or
lots of snow in the winter), you don't see many early 80's jap cars.

Dave

You most likely got the 350 "gas engine made into a diesel", which was a
complete disaster for GM. Later models with "real" diesels performed
much better.

Dave

Dana,

I don't mean to be picky, but FYI, Canada and Mexico are in America. Also,
IMO, the economies of the United States, Canada, and Mexico are really one big
economy. There are firewalls, but we are very dependent upon each others
economies.

Unless I'm mistaken, both Ford and Chrysler py taxes on corprate earnings in
the US. Don't hold me to that.... please.

I always buy American, unless it is simply not possible or CLEARLY imprudent.
Of course, I'm just a jingoistic nationalist. :)

Butch

Dawn,

If you will provide the serial number of your FICHT, I'll betcha Dave, Bill,
etc. will be happy to look up the service history and provide you with some
free help.

Those guys are incredibly helpful to all of us.

Butch

I buy Canadian without misgivings. I visit Canada frequently and find much of
their society more evolved and civil than ours, plus their workers can earn decent
livings with proper fringe benefits.

Yeah. A real serial number...

We had the same kind of post about two weeks ago, and a request for a serial
number. Anyone ever see it?

I thought we did a better screening at the border.... <running and ducking>

--
Regards,

Dave Brown
Brown's Marina
http://www.brownsmarina.on.ca/

Naw. The screening is on the return voyage.

We purposely bought a Pontiac Bonnieville instead of an Accord in
1994. I almost regretted it when the engine was burning a quart in
1,000 miles at 5,000 miles and the dealer told me "that's in
spec". On a new engine. What a load of crap. Eventually, they
actually looked at the engine and fixed it (bad valve seals -
probably the wrong ones). While the car has been doing well - only
an alternator failure so far - I think dealers need to learn to be
a little more customer oriented. I doubt I would have gotten the
same stupid line from the Honda dealer. All the dealer needed to
do was start the car, tap the accelerator and look at the cloud of
blue smoke. Not hard to determine there's a problem here.

Mike

The Oldsmobile dealer probably owns the Honda dealer, or vice versa.

Yes, the Americans *really* innovated with the introduction of Ficht.
Too bad they couldn't invent it, but rather had to buy it from
Europeans. When it came time for the American part of Ficht to be
designed, we really flopped. I wouldn't rate Ficht as one of
America's great successes. There are many better examples from which
to choose.

>Dana wrote: snip >We used to give employees a higher car allowance for

So now buying American means buying Mexican made products? Sheesh.
I'm not buying that one. We are, in fact, dependant on a global
economy. Our manufacturing economy has taken a big hit with the
problems with the Yen. I don't recall such a problem when we recently
bailed out Mexico by allowing them to borrow a large sum of the
almighty dollar.

Unless I'm mistaken, Honda, Toyota, Nissan and all their subsidiaries
that hire people in the states also pay taxes. Not to mention the
thousands and thousands of Americans they employ. Where is the newest
GM plant? I know Toyota just invested $1.2 billion on the Tundra
plant in Indiana. It only employs 1300 people....

I always buy what I feel is the best product. It is not always
American, nor is it always Japanese. Matter of fact, my "American"
computer, Compaq, was made in Taiwan. My "American" HP external CD
burner was made in Hungary. My "American" HP 48SX engineering
calculator was made in Singapore. My "American" Lowrance Globalmap
100 handheld GPS was made in Mexico. My "American" Motorola cell
phone was made in Canada, but the battery was made in Mexico. My
"American" Motorola pager was "assembled" in US, but that usually
means the parts were all made elsewhere (not always). My "American"
Lucent Technologies answering machine...made in Mexico.

My whole point is don't preach to me that "I buy American." Even when
you think you are buying "American," you probably aren't. Buy the
best product you can afford. If it is American, even better. If it
isn't, why should you support mediocre designs? Allow the marketplace
to dictate what is good and what isn't. It seems to be working for
Yamaha!

>Michael J Porter wrote:

Ahhh...but the Honda is not *made* by Oldsmobile. And in this case,
the Honda may have been just as "American" as the Olds.

Doesn't matter to me. Dull little cars, all alike.

>Jeff wrote:
>

I agree. I can never tell the difference between a Pontiac, Chevy,
Buick or Olds...

Well I hate to burst your bubble, but virtually everyone who lives in
South And Central America considers themselves "Americans" Those from
the US and Canada are lumped into the single category "Norteamericanos"
or "North Americans".

So from that inference everything made on both continents is generally
considered "American made".

DAVe
(don't you just love how reality can burst beloved bubbbles)

I figured, wrongly, that a company that made diesel engines of every
size for SO long, would know what it was doing......NOT!

I toured the Roosa Master factory in NC that made the crappy aluminum
injection pump. They told me they had SPECIFICALLY been told to build
what GM contracted for...not to make a pump that would last like the
Roosa Master in a John Deere, which is great!

Never again, GM.....not on your lives!
Larry...

Don't worry, Dave. My bubble is not bursted. I don't buy that line.
I have never heard a Mexican call himself an American. Nor have I
heard and El Salvadorian do the same. I have heard them call them
selves Latin American. I have a good friend that travels to Brazil
and Peru on a regular basis. He lived in Brazil long enough one year
to avoid paying American income tax (in US for less than 30 days in
the year). He is called an American. Brazillians are not.

When someone says they are an American, I do not immediately think
they are from Canada, Mexico, Panama, Brazil, or any other country
except the US. I doubt many others do either.

Nice try. I wonder why I don't see any Mexican or Canadian products
that say "Made in America" on them. Here's a clue....they aren't made
in America.

Being cocky isn't all that bad, if you can be right whilst being
cocky. In your case, you should be a little more humble.

We don't have a "buy made in here" thing (we don't make much anyway) and I
definitely agree with Jeff's "buy the best there is".

Over here, all cars compete for market share and the largest is taken by the
Japanese (all makes). If we look at breakdowns by the roadside, it is
likely to be a non-Jap or a very old Jap jalopy. Jap cars almost never need
oil top-up between service intervals (my 3 Toyotas over 12 years never did
anyway) and their water temp never budges from 3 o'clock position (maybe it
is just made to move there, not measure temp). Now don't get me wrong, I hv
no special love for the Japs, they did occupy my country back then, but a
good product is a good product.

If one cannot compete I suppose it is nice to be able to hide behind
patriotism.

Tan PS

Jap is pejorative.

And it isn't patriotism on my part to try to buy American. When I have a
choice, I prefer that the dollars I spend go into the salaries of American
and Canadian workers.

Further, if I see labels on products that indicate they were made in the PRC
or certain other countries, I don't buy them. I'm not a big fan of slave
labor.

Instant human -- just add coffee.

You must have a hell of a time shopping then, depending on which
certain other countries you exclude.

I posted yesterday about all the "American" products around me in my
office that were made outside of our borders. I got no response. I
guess it hurt some feelings? This morning I'm enjoying some fine
imported coffee in a promotional mug from my Ford dealer....made in
China.

Nope. No trouble at all.

Where were your computer, monitor, printer, fax, periphials, etc.
made? How about your boat electronics? Your television, VCR, stereo,
etc?

I pointed out a bunch of examples of "American" companies that are
building products overseas and outside our borders. Nobody seems to
think it is wrong for them to exploit those countries workers and take
all the profits back here apparently. At least nobody commented on
it. Perhaps the truth stung a little too much on that one.

Let's see.

My computer motherboard was made in Japan. So was the monitor. Our printers
were made in the USA, but use some Canon technology from Japan. Same with
our FAX (HP, all of them...). TV's, VCRs, Stereos, 35 mm cameras made in
Japan. I am aware the Japanese contract with sweatshops in other parts of
the Pacific Rim, but I can't do much about that.

As I have previously stated, I have no problem buying Japanese products or
products from other countries, but, when it is reasonable and possible to
make a choice, I buy U.S. or Canadian.

I have noticed, by the way, a definite deterioration in the quality of
Japanese electronics goods.

There are certain things we do well. When it comes to tools, I buy
American. I have busted my knuckles way too many times using cheapo
Chinese steel tools. The Chinese have had some problems with steel.
The Japanese do much better. There are many other examples of things
we do well. My whole point in this discussion is that when people try
to come across as "I buy American," it is very often not true at all.
American companies do EXACTLY the same thing as other foreign
companies do, they search out cheap labor. I could start a whole new
thread on why (labor unions come to mind), but they do. In fact, I
find it very hypocritical for those that preach "buy American" to
preach that way because in all actuality, they *don't* buy American.

I haven't. I don't like my Canon Multipass 3000 printer/fax, but it
isn't a quality issue, it is features. I should have stuck with HP,
which I had before. Live and learn, right?

We appreciate your purchase of H-P products.

These HP products?

"American" HP 48SX engineering calculator was made in Singapore. And
another "American" HP engineering equation disk that fits my
calculator was made in Japan.

Too bad HP can't find any Americans to make their "American" products.

Typically, the manufacturers do not "halve" the retail cost. Check the
prices on sneakers. $3 in materials, 75 cents in labor (maybe) and a retail
of $199.99.

--

I tried snorting coke once. I almost drowned.

Larry...just saw Singapore and wanted to say hello. Let the character
assinations continue.

On Wed, 04 Aug 1999 14:41:27 GMT, m...@outhouse.com (Jeff) wrote:

Larry...

On Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:48:54 GMT, Tim Butler <tbu...@rational.com>
wrote:

>The Boxster is a Porsche. I'm assuming you mean the Z-3 or M Coupe?
>
>tim

Hmm.....I guess it's a Z-3, then. The little 2-seater with the BIG
pricetag.....

Hope the American-installed parts don't fall off it like the ones on
my Nissan. The Japanese parts, like the engine with 350,000+ hard
miles and poor maintenance, run just fine. But the USA-bolts, all
rubber seals like door seals, are constantly falling off it.

Wanna have some fun? Go to your Honda dealer and ask him if any of
the cars are made in Japan. When he proudly tells you they are
American cars, shrug your shoulders, look dejected, and tell him
you're sorry and that you were looking for an all Japanese car made by
company slaves who do strenuous exercises and sing company songs
before going to work.

Can't you just picture 300 UAW bubbas doing jumping jacks at 7AM while
singing the praises of the Ford Motor Company?

Larry...Compare their schools and the culture that makes all these
great things. Children COMPETING to be in school....children allowed
to drop out of liberal arts education because they want to be auto
mechanics and sent to apprentice programs to make them the best they
can be. What's wrong with us??

We didn't bomb Pearl Harbor?

People never say "It's only a game" when they're winning.

IMO, the US is the best country in the world. Certainly it provides the most
opportunity and greatest level of personal freedom. I love the US.

I will always buy a product made in the US as my first choice unless it clearly
is not a choice for some reason. I will always buy a product made by a US
company as a second choice with the same qualifications.

I don't always buy what others, or myself for that matter, may consider the
best product. I'd kind of like to have a nice new Jaguar roadster, but it's a
little pricy for me. So, I'll stick with my old Tarus. BTW, IMO, no one makes
a better car for the money.

Folks who work for Japanese companies and/or admire and buy Japanese products
seem to think it is racist or stupid to prefer to buy American. That's OK,
they are entitled to their opinion. But, sometimes I think they protest too
much.? Hopefully they feel a little guilty. ;=)

I'm an American. I owe everything I am and have to that fact. I'm proud of
it. I do not apologize for loving my country, warts and all. Thank you, God,
for causing the accident of my birth to occur in this wonderful country.

Butch

But not in the U.N.'s opinion. :-)

So then you fully support my father who works very hard assembling Honda
Accords every day in Marysville, Ohio?

Bullshit.

Really?
I certainly haven't. I actually see the gap widening further. Just picked up
another Yamaha CD Player.

Funny you should mention that. After six months of use, *my* top of the line
Yamaha SCSI CD-R/CD-RW writer died. I shipped it back to the warranty
station. That was three weeks ago. No word yet.

10 PRINT "Waiter, There's a fly in my LOOP": GOTO 10

Dave Hall wrote:

> That's a good thing. After all, if American workers didn't get paid,
> they wouldn't be able to pay their taxes to support someone who just
> doesn't want to work, and who's taking full advantage of the government.
> Welfare only works if there are enough people paying the tab.
>
> Dave

--
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