Lack Of Kissing

I have noticed a steady decline of kissing in porn flicks over the
past five or six years - but nothing compared to how bad it has become
of late. I used to complain (usually to myself) that there wasn't much
kissing in individual scenes (ie one three out of the six scenes in a
vid had any kissing at all). Then it got to the stage where there was
no kissing in the odd flick or so that I would buy or rent.

Now however, it seems that I can see fiver or six flicks in a row -
all with little or no kissing. I wouldn't mind if it was just token
kissing as opposed to the genuine kissing that I would obviously
prefer. This was one of the reasons that I used to enjoy Vivid flicks
as they used to have a lot of what seemed to be genuine kissing in
their sex scenes.

So my question is - what's going on? Has porn become so far removed
from what the vast majority of 'adult viewers' desire to watch? It
used to be that 'features' had much more kissing than 'Gonzo' - but
now it seems they both have the same 'production line' style of porn.
Will we ever get the same amount of kissing in porn flicks that we
used to - or has porn gone too far off track?

Sam
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It's impossible to take kissing seriously in today's porn. Think Aurora Snow
and where her mouth has been!
Seriously, would you kiss her?

> 'adult viewers' desire to watch [that there's no kissing any more?]

1. For some reason, many women consider kissing to be "too
intimate" or "reserved for my boyfriend/husband" while getting
porked somehow isn't. For example, in most of Ed's movies,
you can see the girls avoiding any lip-to-lip contact with Ed while
he's defiling them. If you've ever been with a prostitute, you know
that "no kissing" is a frequent rule.

2. Almost all porn produced today is misogynistic. The women
are merely abused props used to receive the pent up hatred of
the males. With titles that include "cock socket," "skull fucked,"
"ho's," "gangbang," and the like, the women aren't exactly being
used as love objects. Add to that the virtual impossibility to avoid
anal, slapping, choking, gagging, and gangbangs, the market seems
to have been taken over by producers and viewers who have some
serious problems coming to terms with their sexual orientation.

Also, wouldn't it be pretty hard to take seriously a woman who'd kiss
a man after he beat her up?

>>So my question is - what's going on? Has porn become so far removed

LMFAO!!!! Good point. I'd would however love to bang Aurora in the
butt. With a heavy duty condom of course as from watching her
movies, I know who and what has already been inside her butt. :-)

Sam, good to have you back, I hope the girlfriend isn't giving you a hard
time! As to kissing, I have to repeat my frequent advice, check out something
by Toni Ribas or Nacho to see plenty of kissing.

I think it is much more likely a lack of respect for women not
questioning their own orientation.

Someone had the exact right answer to that question. Kissing is so
much more intimate then just fucking. Try renting videos where a girl
works with her boyfriend. But you really can't expect two complete
strangers to kiss passionately in every movie.

>>So my question is - what's going on? Has porn become so far removed

But surely you don't seriously consider *that* to be the main reason?

Even looking back at some of the crassest and skankiest porn scenes
that have ever been filmed revealed that kissing ( I mean real
tongue-sucking-catch-your breath kissing)...has been a welcome staple
in most vids over the last 20 years. That is ...until now.

Look at women like Viper, Annie Sprinkle or Vannessa Del Rio...at one
time or another, their faces, lips, and tongues have done some...let's
just say 'adventurous' exploring on their co-stars...but more often
than not hot kissing was also involved in the scenes.

The difference between yesterday and today is producers/directors back
then recognized kissing as an important part of a good sex scene...and
required it to be performed.

Why this current crop of producer/director ( most but not all)...has
this strange aversion to intimacy and passion in their work is a great
mystery to me.

Technically proficient filmmaking and the the stunning women working
today notwithstanding....scenes without real kissing and the
accompanying 'passion' are little more than 'how-to' vids...which I am
pretty sure none of us really desires or needs.

Mike H

The actor who first made an impression on me was Jake Steed after he
had started his own series. (Chillin' with Jake Steed's Freaks,
Whoes, and Flows) There was a lot more kissing there - and that was
novel at the time.

I think you find that the African-American actors tend to do more
kissing.

Jake Steed seems to be away from the camaras at the moment, but Wesley
Pipes will sometimes start kissing the actresses right in the middle
of a scene. Lexington Steele is another actor who will sometimes
start kissing during a scene.

"Someone" <som...@somewhere.org> wrote in message
news:<rame.1044849606p21275@linux>...

Why is that Trixie? It would seem to be just the opposite from a male
perspective.

Why not? It happens in mainstream movies all the time.

Stan Stewart

Excellent post Mike. You said what I was trying to.

> Mike H

Sam

Well, yeah, I can. Of all the things that Hollywood actors will do, this
is a no-brainer. They'll all kiss their co-stars. They won't fuck them,
but they will kiss 'em... even open mouth!

It's an interesting double-standard that porn performers place upon
themselves -- on the one hand, they're just "acting" but when it comes to
doing things most real actors have no issue doing, suddently it's "too
personal."

Seems like someone wants their Kate and Edith too. ;-)

As to the other notion, I've been told Peter North puts a lot of kissing
into his various series -- but I didn't see any in the "Deep throat This"
volume, I saw... but that may be a genre thing.

Jeff

Did you kiss TT Boy in 18 And Nasty #32?

Patrick Riley

You want the truth, read my reviews: you want advertising copy, read others.

> 2. Almost all porn produced today is misogynistic. The women

Hi,

Actually, it's the 'raincoater' porn that I seem to find the most
passionate kissing these days. It used to be Vivid, VCA etc - but now
I find that they don't focus on this much at all. I love girl/girl
porn also - and Vivid used to have really great g/g kissing scenes.

I realize all the A2M stuff has changed things some-what (well quite a
bit actually). I hate A2M personally - unless it's obvious that some
girl is really really into (then it's sexy in a kind of secondary way
- as it's not the act itself that's 'hot' - but the fact that the girl
is getting off on it).

As for the 'Misogynist' porn being one of the reasons - that depends
on your definition of 'Misogynist' really. For instance, I think that
'Max Hardcore' stuff and 'Rob Black' type of porn are without doubt
responsible for the steady decline of genuine passionate kissing in
porno flicks.

But, if by 'Misogynist' you mean the more intense and high energy sex
scenes that are produced by the likes of Rocco, Christoph Clark and
also stars such as Nacho - then I disagree as these
producers/preformers are about the only that I can find were there
seems to be genuine kissing taking place with plenty of eye contact.

If anyone can suggest any other directors or preformers that they feel
focus on kissing and eye contact more that those that I have mentioned
- then I'd love to hear about them.

Sam

Yes, kissing is so much more intimate then just fucking - and the fact
that kissing doesn't seem to be an 'essential' part of a sex scene
anymore - must mean that less directors are going for the "intimacy"
angle. But why?

Sometimes that can work - but then others it doesns't (ie Eric Price
and Jill Kelly). Their scenes were so dull. Jenna J's stuff with that
Brad guy wasn't bad though. Can't think of any others. Have you got
any reccomendations?

Expect? No, but there's no harm in being an optimist is there? :)

Just out of interest is there any chance that you are the Miss Kelly
who was in one of the recent Service Animals? If so - can you
reccomend any of your scenes where you were into your sex partner so
much so that some serious tongue action took place?

Sam <--well aware that Mr Riley is laughing at this last question :)

Actually, Trixie's attitude makes perfect sense to me, and I would expect that
it is standard throughout the industry. I would expect that the women would
want to reserve *something* for true intimate relations. Mainstream starlets
have lots of activities that they can reserve. Porn actresses don't. In the
old days, when there was a lot of kissing, they could reserve some activities
(frx, anal) for their true partners, but that is no longer an option. Since
kissing is considered less important in porn movies today, they can reserve it.

Reminds me of an olf "Love American Style" episode (showing my age.) I guy was
dating a centerfold, and she wouldn't take off he gloves because that was what
she reserved. Finally he got so desperate to see her bare hands he proposed...

Frank

** Traci, Ginger, Christy, Amber, Nicole W., Nikki C., Nikki R.; Those Were The
Days **

You gotta get the Special Director's cut of that....Pete dusts off the old
Matt
Ramsey moniker and passionately kisses Frank Towers after giving him a nice
frosting.

(errr...so I've heard)

:-)

Spaceman J

Probably because kissing many porners would be like licking a dirty ashtray.

>   Sam, good to have you back ..

Cheers. I heard on the grapevine about the Bella 'thing' and just had
to pop back in and see what was being said about the beautiful one.
Just doing my S.F.B. duties is all <g>

I'm saying nothing :)

> As to kissing, I have to repeat my frequent advice ..

And good advice it is too Speelie. I think yourself and Mr Nine are
about the best source for euro reviews.

Yeah, Nacho just loves fucking the b'jeasus of the ladies. Kissing,
face slapping - the man's a cross between OJ and Don Juan :)

Hakan is another one who can mix 'hardcore' with 'passsion'. Top man -
he doesn't even have to jack himself off as for some strange reason he
can come from just fucking :) I recently bought Rocco's Inniatiations
3 (which you gave a good review) and I really enjoyed the scene with
Hakan and the young dark haired girl (don't recognize her). He
couldn't keep his hands off her - has she made any other vids?

Sam

[snip]

I totally disagree with that, and I wonder whether most RAMErs would,
too. Kissing is pretty personal, but if I fuck (um, make love with)
someone, I care deeply about her, and it's much more personal for me
and requires much more trust and comfort with her.

a-man

>>From: Stan Stewart sste...@rconnect.com

[snip]

What's "frx"? Is it in the FAQ under abbreviations or something?

[NOTMOD: Common abbreviation "for example". --Spaceman J]

a-man

they're probly not going for that angle because it's not something the
performers want to do, they would probly be uncomfortable and it would
show if they were kissing someone they didnt want to kiss

Sorry I don't know any but I'm sure someone on here does.

Yes that was me :)

In New Girls 2 I kissed Keith and really enjoyed it, also I worked
with him in 18 & Nasty 32.

I didn't work with TT Boy, I worked with his brother.

Even in the mainstream R rated movies, tongue kissing starts immediately, and
they're not bashful about it!  

Is it possible that some of the women are so attractive that the lead actor
couldn't last if he got turned on from the kissing?

I used to really enjoy the lipstick smearing and the lip prints that were
left.  Can someone tell me why one actress wipes the lipstick off another's
breast after nipple licking?  

Alicia Rio used to be amazing in her kissing scenes with men or women.
If the other woman were reticent, Alicia would just grab her and devour her,
and really, really, seemed to be enjoying it.  Gwen Summers is pretty good,
too, for kissing scenes.

I used to love that show!  I'll never forget an episode with Anita Gillette
that involved kissing for abut half of it!  Her lead actor couldn't handle
the love scene, so the guy who played the director showed him how to kiss her
again and again and again.  Anita had a very sweet full pair of lips!

> But you really can't expect two complete

NO?  Take a look at some Hollywood films - Unfaithful for one.
How about the new French realism films.  How about the Hollywood films from
the 50's?  Every time Marilyn Monroe did a kissing scene, the actor ended up
in bed with her and forgot about his wife!

Take a look at a B grade film like Queen of Outer Space with Zsa Zsa Gabor.
The whole film is hot kissing (for that time).  There's another film from the
early 60's called "Let's Rock" with Julius LaRosa and Phyllis Newman.  She
was stunning as a young actress and you could see LaRosa was extending their
kissing scenes.

How about Vanilla Sky with Penelope Cruz and Tom Cruise?  Or any Nicole
Kidman movie.  Her co-star usually is enveloped in her body and her saliva!

Those who desire to watch intmacy, turn to mainstream today.

Fair enough and very sensual. I do not take it for granted to get
every pore of a performer, lest her soul. Even a less gifted actress
can play to be a cock-socket, but conveying intimacy with somebody she
would not choose to be intimate in private life, is a different cup of
tea.

Moralistic bullshit here. If YOU think so, than stop watching it.

> With titles like (...) "ho's," "gangbang," and the like, the women aren't exactly being used as love objects.

Hardcore porn is not about love, but sex. Basically penetration and
fluids. A gangbang seen in this context perfectly suits the never
ending quest for more orgasms plus the phantasy of transgressing
borders. Calling a girl a whore in porn context is flattering.
Maybe you should learn some basic porn language first.

Druber

As i said before, Gwen Summers seems to enjoy kissing.  In one of the
Babewatch films, and actress by the name of April Summers got into kissing.

I've noticed that Rebecca Wild rarely kissed her co-star and she had some
orgasmic inspiring lips!

Man, do I miss Alicia Rio!

  Which part of the movie do you mean, Sam? As I recall, every scene involving
Hakan also has other performers. In the first real scene, he spends most of his
time with Krizstina Bella, later he's with Sophie Angel, now known as Veronica
(she's the girl who fools around with the blowup doll), and in the last scene,
he's first with Milla, who vanishes when the anal starts, and then mainly with
Anita Black (the shorter girl, the taller one is Tamara N'Joy). I can suggest
further scenes for all of these girls except Milla.

> performers want to do ..

How about you? What type of movies to want to make? Do you enjoy a
more relaxed movie set with little or no direction? Or do you prefer
to be in character when you 'do it' on camera?

Hell, while I'm at it - what about the million dollar question. Have
you ever had an on-screen orgasam?

<Mr Riley rolls his eyes to the heavens and shakes his head> :)

> show if they were kissing someone they didnt want to kiss.

Exactly, it's much harder to fake 'enjoyment' while kissing
(especially with eye contact) than it is to say fake 'enjoyment' of
getting fucked or sucking cock. That's just the reason that I want to
see kissing be much more part of sex scenes. That way you can tell who
is 'really' having a good time and who isn't.

Some will say - 'who cares' as long as they (their screen pixels -
nudge nudge wink wink <g>) appear to be having a good time. Well they
would have a point if we were talking about mainstream (Hollywood)
films as these people can act and so I can suspend belief as Gretta
Scaachi seduces Eric "Coca Cola Kid"
Roberts.

However, with porn it's a different story as 99% of the preformers
cannot act. So if Hollywood softcore doesn't float your boat and you
desire to see some 'hardcore' action - then all you can do is try and
find porn flicks were the preformers wanted to and enjoyed fucking
each other on camera.

And so here I find myself asking 'why has kissing being overlooked of
late' - and not as prevalent as it once was.

They know - but the fuckers ain't telling :)

<Flustered> Well, nice to meet your acquaintance Miss Kelly .. I sure
eh .. enjoyed your .. eh .. work, work .. yes I sure enjoyed myself ..
errr no .. I mean enjoyed you .. well done .. good job there .. nice
<g>

I'll check it out so.

TT Boy has a brother? I never knew that.

Sam

Ummmm, no, I don't think it's flattering.  Not with all the moral BS that
comes with the title.

Now, those who think 'actress' in porn context is a laugh will disagree,
and we'll have another never-ending argument, so I'll stop now...

> Druber

Mike Paul

To stay on-topic, kissing *and* hardcore is what I want, and I groan in
disgust every time I hear it's 'too personal' to have both...

Have you ever seen any movie with Maria Conchita Alonso? Do you think she's
"acting" during her love scenes? Her nipples are usually hard as rocks and
she always tongue kisses. She's admitted in numerous interviews that she has

affairs with her co-stars.

There are certain actresses in mainstream Hollywood that are notorious for
having sex with their co-stars, and the significant others/wives know it and
doth protest when they hear their hubby/boyfriend will be doing a film with
that actress.

Kate Winslet and Angelina Jolie are two that come to mind. I don't think
Courtney Love has a problem with sex on the set either. All of them take
kissing in mainstream films pretty far.

She did an excellent g/g scene with Janine that contained alot of
kissing. Maybe this was Janines influence as she does seem to get into
some pretty 'hardcore' mouth to mouth scenes.

Now that I remember it - Janine is in another scene with some great
tongue and mouth action. It was in a flick called 'Head Over Heels'
and Janine played the owner of a 'Shoe Store'. Laura Palmer is a
customer and the two of them get frisky and they decide to lock up.
What happens next is one of my all time favourite g/g scenes. To see
Janine on her Knees sucking Laura's clit like her life depends on it -
all the while keeping 'intense' eye contact - is simply amazing.

Sam

Hi Speelie,

> his time with Krizstina Bella .. <snip>

This must be the one so Speelie - as it is definitely at the start of
the flick. I know this because it's pretty hard to get past this scene
:) She is one little hottie with really beautiful eyes too.

By the way - have you any clue what those young chicks were laughing
at when they were all up in the attic with Rocco? He seemed pretty
freaked out by it. I think they were speaking hungarian or something.
Some of them were really cute too. I never saw a scene like that
before. I loved the way, at the end of that scene, Rocco slowly shot
them getting dressed while still getting a little head before they
left.

Sam

It wasn't always like that -- and that's what is being bemoaned here.

More orgams for who? Certainly not the girl -- rarely is the gangbang
presented as a girl's insatiable lust requires her to have 20 men... it is
usually "look! a chick! A buncha guys! Let's fuck her!!!!" (if you get
even that much set up.)

Didn't we have this discussion? It is NOT flatttering in any context I can
think of.

I prolly the villain here. If I even suspect there be any goofy kissing in a
vid, I don't buy. Only kissing I expect to see is good rim stuff like Oral
Consumption, he he, now dat great stuff!!
Yep, I a great raincoater, spend $1000s on the stuff. Glad 80s are gone!
and there are millions like me...at least.

Janine does get into kissing, but there's also nipple licking to excess.
I don't understand the pre-occupation with nipple sucking and licking. I find
that so benign. Rather than cock-extending, its cock-stopping. I agree with
you that passionate, wet kissing is the way they should go, even when
banging. My guess is that the actual off-screen partners would go nuts when
they saw the finished scene, as they know it's not in the script.

Years ago, my friend was watching an outdoor scene being shot with Trish Van
Devere in a mainstream film. She was the then wife of the late George C.
Scott. She was doing a love scene with another actor, and the director
yelled cut - but she didn't. He told me they went on for about a minute,
just making out in front of everyone. Usually that shows up in the dailies,
and if an actor has a friend on the set, he gets to see it sooner or later.

To go off-topic, movies with g-g *and* hetero scenes are what I want, and I am
flabbergasted when people claim that I should be satisfied with all-girl
flicks...

Deal with it, Mike.

Frank

I think if you re-read the above paragraph - you'll find that I agree
with you. Your just making my point for me. I said that I believe that
99% of porn stars can't act and so in to make 'good' porn - they must
be into it.

Sam

Was there a *good* point here?  I think not.

Inside the same hetero scene, I want the woman to kiss the guy.  While
she's there, a little extra effort shouldn't be written off as something
'too personal'.  Sure, this means the features and not the gonzo stuff,
but when someone I like is doing those, I buy them.

The greediness that makes one demand that g/g scenes occupy both hetero
and g/g videos seems like a whine about an issue that I gave up on pretty
much a year ago.  My point was: here are perfectly good g/g videos, just
chock full of g/g goodness, so there's no need to waste runtime on those
scenes in hetero videos while b/g/g scenes would be OK.  But noooooooo,
that was considered too selfish of me.  I had to remember some people are
too lazy to change tapes to get what they want...

Mike Paul

I'd suggest the same, but it looks like more dealing is required...

I think they were mostly laughing at the size of his cock, and how it was
already large when they pulled it out of his underwear, even before any
stroking or sucking.
BTW, here's another tip for extensive kissing, check out Christoph
Clark's
recent movies, especially those with Manuel Ferrara, such as Beautiful Girls
7.
Manuel is always kissing his co-stars, and he's the sort of attractive guy
they
don't mind kissing back.

>From: Mike Paul mp...@sc.rr.com

Define good. I was trying to make a point by using irony.

Then you go on and say:

and

Read your above point about features versus gonzo. That's also what *I'm*
talking about. Switching tapes to get particular types of scenes, rather than
a flowing story combining both types of scenes, would be the same thing as
gonzo; or even worse, compilations. It has nothing to do with laziness, it is
wanting ones desires met.

And the reason why you are being selfish is that you demand that *all* hetero
vids meet your requirements. I'm perfectly happy having some that meet yours
and some that meet mine.

Man, you are such a hopeless romantic. Which is fine in real life, but
does bring you a lot of unnecessary conflicts if you wanna discuss
porn, IMO.
Never wished to fuck (yes, pound in) some chick just because you
wanted to come?Never wanked off to a porn scene on film?

If somebody decides to perform sex for money (yes, for money!) on a
film set, they need to be strong persons detaching film role from
private life. Fucking for them is like a craft, is rather sports than
compassion. Lovemaking is (and should be) about the least thing those
actors think of.

Druber

Well, I have different standards for real-life behavior than for
fantasy (up to a point).

Come on, now! Of course I've jerked off to porn scenes!

Sure, I fantasize about fucking a woman because she's beautiful, sexy,
or seems like a good lay. But if I actually did have sex with
her...hmmm...I guess I'll just say that I've never just picked up a
girl and fucked her. Maybe that'll happen someday, but it hasn't, and
I think that's really the stuff of fantasy for me, not something I
actually have any burning desire to do in real life. Porn for me is
fantasy, not reality.

Makes sense to me, and well-explained.

a-man

It's just too bad I was once able, I believe, to get more of what I
wanted as far as kissing goes.

One would think that as time went on and porn became more common, a hard,
robotic don't-kiss-me-just-fuck-me attitude would dwindle, rather than
increase...

> Druber

Mike Paul

Ah, well...

Of course you are: greed and laziness.  G/G only, by definition, has no
hetero.  Gay has no hetero, but when Gay and hetero mix there's usually
the 'Bi' warning.  But I'm constantly screwed by unannounced g/g scenes
sucking up runtime.  Heterosexual women seem to dislike G/G, but that's
no concern of yours either.  B/G/G would be acceptable to me, but you
want your heroines to explore their homosexual impulses far, far away
from men.  What you want is what's available now, and you want no
changes.

Now, we can let it drop again, right?...

> Frank

Mike Paul

In exchange, I'll *desperately* try to hold back on being the first to
make any discussions of IR dodgers into racism threads...

Am I correct in in thinking that you would like g/g scenes to be kept
'All Girl' vids? And if I am - is there anything else (as far as porn
is concerned) that you would prefer was kept to 'speciality' vids?

Correct me if I'm wrong - but aren't you the guy who is allways
harping on about how female porn stars should not be allowed to have a
'no black guy's' rule - as far as their sex scenes are concerned? And
, again, if so - isn't this a little hypocritical considering your g/g
views?

I mean, isn't your g/g thinking a segregation of sorts? If I was to
suggest that all interracial scenes be kept to 'interracial only' vids
- wouldn't you be up in arms?

Sam

<sigh>

Yes, you are correct about the 'All Girl' aspect.

No, there's nothing else I want moved to another, already existing sub-
genre...

I believe this was tried last time around.

There is no 'specialty' aspect to allowing Black people to be equals.
That attitude is why there's still a problem. I believe only racists
would feel a *need* for an IR warning. Or, at least, a BM/WF warning.
Black women fit in better, it seems.

I am not banning homosexual activity or anything by wanting g/g moved to
where it already has a home. B/G/G has plenty of room for any activity
that a g/g lover would want. The only difference is that guy can't have
his omniscient-peeking-at-lesbians thrill. For that, he'd have to get
over his laziness, get up, and change the video.

I realize I'm not keeping hetero videos "pure" by allowing B/G/G, but
it's a concession offered in an attempt to be fair...

I don't recall an 'interracial ONLY' section in any store I've been in,
while 90% of them have a 'g/g only' one. That aspect of "Here, this is
what you want with none of what you don't" is already filled. Nobody
that I know of bothers to cull through all of the hetero videos, and mark
them as to the presence or absence of g/g.

Yea, I'd be up in arms to have IR ghettoized. I didn't build a g/g
ghetto. I just want new zoning laws. Hetero videos would revolve around
b/g *contact*. No more guy-jerking-off-while-watching-women stuff, which
looks deceptively acceptable on the box but is another waste of runtime
in reality. No "Uh, oh" aspect when two women have spent more than a few
moments talking alone and are starting to get 'chummy'. If two guys were
to do that, there'd normally be a 'Bi' label to warn me. I bet only a
few heterosexual men would go along with unmarked scenes like that.

Thew reason I asked Frank to let this drop is I don't have the same kind
of Moral Imperative about making hetero videos include males AND females
in all scenes that I do about getting rid of racial discrimination. It's
just an idea, that would fix a problem I have, and other people might
benefit from.

Unfortunately, the lazy and the greedy want things the way they are, and
that's just it...

> Sam

Mike Paul

So are we going to continue to look for ways that Mike can be picked on,
or are we going to let it drop?...

As long as you continue to spout off gratuitous insults, and misrepresent my
position, no.

1) If you go back to the very beginning of our disagreement, you'll discover
that I agreed with your that far too many of the hetero movies out there had
g/g scenes. I *don't* want things left alone, I just don't want a total ban on
g/g in *every* hetero movie.

2) I even stated at one time that I had no problem with a seperate section
labeled "hetero with lesbian action' or whatever, and have the movies that I
want to see limited to that section.

3) You continue to claim that my desires can be met by simply substituting
whatever available g/g scene I can throw in at the time; rather than have them
be part of an integrated movie. I know you aren't that stupid, Mike. Frx,
watching "Insatiable" would be a completely different experience if, rather
than the Serena/Marilyn pool scene, I had to stop the tape and suddenly play
something like the Serena/Taran Steele scene from Catlickers #4. The pool
scene is an integral part of the movie, contributing considerably to the
development of the character of Sandra Chase.

My points are (1) asking for *some* (not even a majority of) movies to meet
one's desires is not greedy, asking for all (or even most) movies to meet one's
desire is; and (2) wanting a movie to be whole piece of work, rather than a
patchwork of different scenes, is not lazy - it is, however; demanding of the
movie makers.

IMHO, this qualifies as specious agreement.

You don't want things left alone, but when some sort of change is made,
it won't be a total ban.

[sarcasm]
Sure, I can see a producer remembering to only put out one g/g scene in
his otherwise hetero productions for the month.
[/sarcasm]

It's like: when the long-overdue day when agents stop telling actresses
to avoid Black men comes, only having 90% of them stop will be fairly
useless.

http://www.sfbayvideos.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=421

Don't really see this in the 2000 thread, but in any event, what's wrong
with the existing 'Bi' section?

Ooops, 'Bi' is just a code word for 'some Gay stuff', and you wouldn't
want to weed through that.

But a new ghetto for what you do want, that's OK. And I bet nobody calls
you on it, like they did me...

Ummm, this is where I'll contend it was just the obligatory g/g scene,
providing no insight whatsoever, and we'll call it quits.

If the genre was "Hetero", and hetero meant something, that plotline
wouldn't exist.

After all, they don't decide the guys need to delve into their homosexual
side without a plan to sell it to the right market, so the same thinking
for the women would just generate g/g-free plots.

If nobody makes b/g/g, even if twins are willing, I will *not* cry over
it...

Actually, when the genre is "hetero", accepting non-hetero stuff just
seems wimpy. However, when I try to stand up for what I want in my
"hetero" stuff, I run into problems. It is not encouraging for me to
believe wimpiness is a virtue, just to avoid being called greedy. And
silence to avoid ruffling feathers is bad. False agreement with
another's position to avoid trouble sucks too. One man's insult is
another man's accurate description. (I guess this about covers my
General Theory of Posting.)

B/G/G was an attempt to *not* be greedy, but that didn't work either, I
guess...

And when that whole piece of work includes g/g, you don't consider that a
stretch, just an obligation being met. The character just happens to be
into women, even though that's not as common in reality as porn makes it
out to be. A quick Google search on "Homosexual percentage" brings back
figures as low as 3% of the US population being homosexual, so let's
triple that for fairness in finding *any* women into g/g sex.

I consider g/g shoved into b/g projects to be there for no good reason, and
easily removed by just assuming the woman is like 91% or so of the female
population...

> Frank

Mike Paul

If you want to watch the other 9%, they are well represented over in the
g/g section...

>Mike Paul

Mike...from your personal viewpoint ( which I do not dispute)...you
are probably justified in saying that g/g is "shoved" into hetero
tapes for no good reason.

I mostly feel the same way when I watch otherwise sexy " Hustler
Barely Legal" tapes...and some director interrupts sexy scenes to show
some girl peeing ( with full stereo surround-sound no less).Ugh!

Anyway...I just wanted tp point out something many g/g fans may
already realize ( or not). Since you are not a g/g fan...this point
may seem moot.

For some reason it seems that the best g/g scenes in terms of
direction. passion. chemistry and kissing...are found in otherwise
hetero tapes. Why this seems true for the most part remains a
personal mystery to me.

But for those of us who are g/g fans...we are grateful to find quality
scenes wherever we can. Once in a blue moon a really great series like
"No Man's Land" comes along and *mostly* consistently delivers the
goods.

But most of the rest of the "all-girl" ghetto is littered with pure
crap.

For me there are times for only b/g and times for only g/g. The two
need not neccessarily mix. I just fear that if g/g scenes produced for
hetero vids fall by the wayside...what remains in the *original*
all-girl tapes will not ' pick up the slack' quality-wise.

Don't know who's buying those copies of "A Girl's Affair" volume
60-70-80 etc...but it ain't me. A big 'thumbs down' to Fat Dog. <g>

Mike H

> I consider g/g shoved into b/g projects to be there for no good reason ....

No good reason? Adult production companies are not as stupid as you
would like to believe. Sure, sometimes they are way off with the stuff
they churn out - but as far g/g scenes go - they are right on the
money. They know that the vast majority of guys who buy their product
have a g/g facination. You are clearly in the minority on this
subject.

This comment and your point about there being way to much g/g scenes
in porn to actually reflect the true % of women with lesbian
tendencies is irrelevent. They are not there to reflect the true % of
bi-women in the world - they are present in 'hetro' flicks so that
guys can jack off to them . It's as simple as that. I mean, anal sex
is now in 85% of the porn flicks out there, but that doesn't suggest
that 85% of the women in the world take it up the ass now does it - it
just means that 85% of porn consumers want to see women take it up the
ass.

> Mike Paul

Sam

This is what I am getting at. There is nothing else that *you* would
want moved to an already exsisting subgerne - but if 'we' grant you
your wish (as far as g/g scenes go) - then 'we' will have a hundred
other different requests from the other porn watching folks who would
prefer *their* pet-hates kept out of their way.

I can't stand A2M - but to ask for it to be kept to A2M vids would be
a little silly. It's my tough luck if a vid is knee-deep in A2M
scenes. Same with blow-jobs - I get bored watching 'em. I bet if you
took a poll here on RAME you would find similar opinions. You can't
please everyone though and I feel it's up to the porn consumer to find
what 'line' or 'director' suits his porn watching tastes. God knows
there is enough adult vids produced every year - and so the odds are
that there is something to please everyone. Isn't that what the
reviewers are there for.

Speaking of the reviewers, I have made no secret that Rog is one of my
favourite - but one thing that I don't agree with Rog on (two, if you
include the Felisha thing <g>) and which is similar to your g/g
wishes, is the he would like the peeing scenes kept to the fetish
lines. This is something I just don't get. I understand that Rog
doesn't like water tricks (<g>) but I don't see why it shouldn't be
including in this type of vid.

Why? Well beacuse I bet these flicks I loved by a lot of porn fans. I
bet there is a % of folks outthere who believe that Hustler has got
these vids just right with a little peeing before each scene. God
knows there is enough of this teen flicks with no peeing. So why
should we just lump all peeing scenes to the fetish line? Then these
guy's (who like this format) would only have 90 minutes of peeing in
their vids.

Same story with g/g scenes. Why must these scenes be kept to g/g only
vids. What about the guys (like me) who like a little varity in their
porn. You talk about people being too lazy to change the tape - but
maybe your just too lazy to press FF or even easier on a DVD player -
just go to the next scene. You views are based on a very selfish point
of view. If you got your way - then some people (like me) would be
uncatered for.

I never said there was.

If you say so.

It wouldn't be a "warning" as you put it. It would just be there as a
content guide.

The reason
that Black women 'fit in better' (more popular would be a better
description - but then that doesn't allow you to play the race card,
now does it?) is because 'porn' in general is 'all' about the "women"
- black or white - so naturally they are going to be more popular than
black guys. Also, a large precentage of the porn watching public is
white and so obviously a white cock is easier to relate to than a
black one (even if it's just a matter of size <g>)

Bollox! I love (genuine) g/g action (not just token crap) and belive
me B/G/G does in no way meet me needs and desires. Sometimes is just
has to be two girls looking deep into each others eyes and then slowly
working each others bodies to a beautiful climax. You just can't get
the same sort of sexual energy in a B/G/G scene as you can in some g/g
scenes.

Nonsense, complete nonsense.

Or you could just press FF.

Oh we are so honored - thank you dear sir, thank you. Consession? Do
me a favour!

Well I have never been in a an 'adult store' (honest <g>) but I have
visted many online and they have many sections and an 'Interracial
Section' was in every single one - along with g/g, public sex etc etc.

There are loads of hetro only vids out-there - God knoes I have sat
through many many vids waiting for a g/g scene only to be dissapointed
when there wasn't one. Just make sure and read some of the many
reciews online before you buy - then you can't complain.

Stop, your turning me on :)

I don't mind. I'll just f/f or go to the next scene or not buy anymore
vids from this director or production company. Chances are though that
I wouldn't have bought it - as I tend to only buy vids after a I have
read the advertising copy :)

Just out of interest. How do you feel about the 'all-black' titles out
there. Especially the ones were they constantly calling each other
'niggers'?

Yeah, you and one or two guys might benifit from it - while 1000's
would have to get their 'g/g scenes' in 'g/g only' vids - that makes a
lot of sense. The fact is that more people are happy with g/g scenes
than unhapppy. You only have to look at the reaction of g/g kissing
scenes in mainstream movies to see that the majority of guys love a
little girl/girl loving.

Sam

Only because it's somewhat extreme. G/G is a total bore in porn, which is why
it is no longer obligatory.

I'll try to keep this short. It's odd that this post came in later than
the newer, shorter post I didn't bother responding to...

<snip>

The lazy and the greedy, who enjoy the fact that the 'hetero' genre
includes g/g scenes forced upon those, male and female, who don't want
them.

"Find something else to watch"? Sure, but it'd be easier if the g/g
stuff went where g/g stuff already had a home...

I won't quote your whole first post again, but I watched you go from
'specialty' to 'segregation', and that made me think you had linked the
two. Implying I was hypocritical also linked them as related. Pulling
back now that I called you on it just seems lame...

[sarcasm]
Yea, right...
[/sarcasm]

[sarcasm]
Well, with this simple explanation, I guess Cambria was wrong, and you
are right...
[/sarcasm]

Then go where g/g already is...

<Psst, this is where some sort of argument would go. Otherwise, you look
bad...>

If it wasn't there, in my "hetero" videos, I wouldn't have to...

So, is there a chance you can make a point next time, rather than boorish
comments?

As previously stated, I'm using 'lazy' and 'greedy' as descriptions and
not insults, but if you can't work up the effort to actually discuss
this, I can change...

Ummm, online stores use what's called an 'index', usually by adding a
database field for the job. You will pull up lots of 'interracial'
videos with WM/WF scenes in them.

"'Interracial only' vids" would be a different, more biased, story...