Politics
More PoliticsShould We Blame Sarah Palin for Gabrielle Giffords' Shooting?
by Howard Kurtz
Howard Kurtz is The Daily Beast's Washington bureau chief. He also hosts CNN's weekly media program Reliable Sources on Sundays at 11 a.m. ET. The longtime media reporter and columnist for The Washington Post, Kurtz is the author of five books.
Already, people are pointing fingers at Sarah Palin and her "target map" for fostering the tragedy in Arizona—but Howard Kurtz says military terminology has been part of politics for ages.
I hate to say this, but the blame game is already under way.
It began within hours of Saturday's horrifying shooting of Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and nearly 20 others, even before the gunman was identified.
Political Target Map as seen on Sarah Palin's website. Inset: Sarah Palin and Gabrielle Giffords (AP Photo)
One of the first to be dragged into this sickening ritual of guilt by association: Sarah Palin. Last March, the former Alaska governor posted a map on her Facebook page with crosshair targets representing 20 Democratic lawmakers she was singling out for defeat after they voted for President Obama's health care plan. One of them was Giffords. Palin, who touts her caribou-hunting heritage, also tweeted, "Don't retreat, RELOAD!"
This kind of rhetoric is highly unfortunate. The use of the crosshairs was dumb. But it's a long stretch from such excessive language and symbols to holding a public official accountable for a murderer who opens fire on a political gathering and kills a half-dozen people, including a 9-year-old girl.
On her Facebook page, Palin offered her "sincere condolences" to Giffords and the others who were shot, saying that "on behalf of Todd and my family, we all pray for the victims and their families, and for peace and justice."
This isn't about a nearly year-old Sarah Palin map; it's about a lone nutjob who doesn't value human life.
Liberals were quick to denounce Palin at the time of the map posting. And after Giffords' Tucson office was vandalized that same month, the Democratic congresswoman told MSNBC, "We're on Sarah Palin's targeted list. But the thing is, the way she has it depicted it has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. And when people do that, they've got to realize there are consequences to that action."
Giffords had every right to ask Palin and others to tone it down. But is it now fair for the rest of us to tie Palin to the accused gunman, Jared Lee Loughner?
Let's be honest: Journalists often use military terminology in describing campaigns. We talk about the air war, the bombshells, targeting politicians, knocking them off, candidates returning fire or being out of ammunition. So we shouldn't act shocked when politicians do the same thing. Obviously, Palin should have used dots or asterisks on her map. But does anyone seriously believe she was trying to incite violence?
Palin seemed to pull back in a subsequent campaign appearance for her former running mate, John McCain. "We know violence isn't the answer," she said. "When we take up our arms, we're talking about our vote."
But she also mocked the criticism as politically correct, using her Facebook platform to apply the same language to basketball's Final Four: "To the teams that desire making it this far next year: Gear up! In the battle, set your sights on next season's targets! From the shot across the bow—the first second's tip-off—your leaders will be in the enemy's crosshairs, so you must execute strong defensive tactics."
A fellow Arizona Democrat, Rep. Raul Grijalva, said that the Palin “apparatus” shares responsibility for creating a climate of extremism. "Both Gabby and I were targeted in the apparatus in that cycle [saying] these people are 'enemies,’” Grivjalva told Mother Jones’s David Corn. He added: “The Palin express better look at their tone and their tenor.”
And MSNBC's Keith Olbermann made the link even more explicit on Saturday night: "If Sarah Palin, whose website put and today scrubbed bullseye targets on 20 representatives including Gabby Giffords, does not repudiate her own part in amplifying violence and violent imagery in politics, she must be dismissed from politics."
Of course, some rhetoric is deliberately incendiary. U.S. District Judge John Roll, one of those shot and killed in Tucson, had ruled in 2009 that a lawsuit by illegal immigrants against an Arizona rancher could go forward. Afterward, U.S. Marshal David Gonzales said that talk radio shows fanned the flames and prompted hundreds of calls to the judge, some of them threatening. "They said, 'We should kill him. He should be dead,'" Gonzales told the Arizona Republic.
The act of transforming tragedy into political fodder has deep roots in American history. After the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, President Bill Clinton attacked "the purveyors of hatred and division" for "reckless speech," saying the nation's airwaves were too often used "to keep some people as paranoid as possible and the rest of us all torn up and upset with each other. They spread hate, they leave the impression that, by their very words, that violence is acceptable."
Rush Limbaugh, who had tangled with Clinton, responded that "liberals intend to use this tragedy for their own political gain." He blamed "many in the mainstream media" for "irresponsible attempts to categorize and demonize those who had nothing to do with this."
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Mrtjbv
Jeez, Howard, how naively you whitewash Palin's riflle scope sights, especially after Giffords warned of the consequences. If they were not totally irresponsible incitements to gun violence by nutjobs, then what is? You think of them as egregious; I think of them as directives.
teabaggingforjesus
Reload Howard, reload.
jdx60009
Sarah Palin might as well have shot these people herself.
camper
none of you hacks care about the people who where killed. The only thing any of you care about is the media outlet you favor. I am disgusted with America today. I am embarassed to be an American today.
akcita
Wow, first report was a "ex-military", now we here he was a pot smoking college student who wasn't allowed to enlist for unstated reasons.
I think the pro pot lobby has blood on their hands.
joymars
In response to your pandering headline:
Yes.
joymars
@camper:
Get over yourself. This crap has been going on for the last 12 years, at least. You're just now waking up?
floridabob
This act of violence, no, She had no direct influence on that event. However, I think there is a larger problem involved, one that many people contribute to, myself included. The rhetoric level, much of it completely unfounded, is affecting people who have a diminished capacity to recognize there is a difference between hateful talk and hateful action. Many people share some complicity. Some more than others, depending on the stage they have. Palin certainly has a large stage, as do Beck, Hannity, Olbermann, O'Reilly, Ed Schultz and even me, a small way.
flyoverland
With almost 24 hours in hindsight, his friends now say he is a "liberal". Whatever he is, he's nuts. Has this country devolved so horribly that we want to assign political bent to an broken mind?
angst7
I'm suref we expect to hear from the nutballs on MSNBC that it was because of Palin, Fox or Bech or all three. Actually, I don think one has to wait for their cable, they are enough nuts on their regular network to promote this though.
robertell
No...we should not..the man was insane...
possumdearie
If an ad agency represents a bank, and they talk about meeting their target audience in their next campaign, are they responsible for a robbery?
TheMadRealist
I'll just put this right here:
http://images.sodahead.com/blogs/000291320/dnc_target_xlarge.jpeg
gardengirl
"the pro-pot lobby has blood on its hands"?
this is ridiculous, right-wing, & idiotic.
rightofrush
floridabob: Congrats, that is the most sensible intelligent thing that I have read from you. My hat off to you. And the next step is stopping the lower/higher class rhetoric, this will also lead to more violence and hatred between classes.
These things along this line is from hearing and reading things with a disturbed mind, and the recourse is to try an solve something with your disturbed mind. The blame goes to the individual alone, not someone or something else.
mrwolfy
Oh my, this writer should be ashamed of himself, if he is capable of that.
jus1drun
obviously the blame for the act cannot be laid on palin, but there are nuts out there and gunsights on a map is over the top.
Genni2002
errr...Hey Palin...goodness, never looked at your WS before. God, as if the killing of doctors was not enough. Now you go after people who look at giving healthcare options in a different way that you. Good to know the lengths that your tea bagsters will go to inspired by just a picture and some catchy litte comments thrown out by you and your ilk. Quite sickening...
debrarae
of course YOU would make use of any CRISES in order to further leftist aims. Nice try YOU FAIL!!!!!!!
debrarae
By the way .........you do know that the people who KNOW the SHOOTER said he was a LIBERAL........ something PEOPLE LIKE YOU REFUSE TO REPORT (when it's been verified by multiple conservative and liberal sources as FACT);.
Typical .............
cryptoad
Teabaggers 21 - Progressives 0
philmon
@FauxHunter
Totalitarians of all stripes ban books and demand loyalty to one party and demonize anything, science or not, that they disagree with, and emphasize a strong military. Or do the names Castro and Che mean nothing to you.
Does this mean anything to you?
NAZI -- short for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei .... National Socialist German Workers Party.
You won't find American right-wingers promoting or defending socialism. Left-wingers will, though, and energetically so. Typically after denying that it has ANYTHING to do with their agenda.
ittybittykitty
Floridabob,
Well said.
milkman57
yes
binkis
'Sincere' is only for when she is caught--- She had a 'pleb' follow this with the survveyors maps lie! White wash Howie.. White wash! .
dana64
these GOPers have used others to do the DIRTY WORK for them ever since the religious right encouraged KILLING Of DOCTORS at abortion Clinics and they unleashed their PUPPET TEAbaggers to come back to POWER and now this.
the climate they have created ..............allowed this to happen.
Mrtjbv
Very well said, Dana64. Besides, if there were no harm in Palin's gunsights, why did she immediately take them down?
ICHINGtoGO
How many children will it take before the country comes awake. Sarah Palin is a child killer that borrowed the Tea Baggers gun. She spreads her hate at every oportunity and there will probably be more killings because of it she and her followers are complicit. Congress Woman Giffords will live but her life will most likely resemble James Brady, in a wheel chair drooling on himself. She ain't gonna be be back at work next week folks.
wareagle82
so, dana,
thanks for lowering the bar of intelligence to a new low. Perhaps, you could convince the uniter in chief to do what he promised instead of continuing to further the divisions within the country. Of course, POTUS didn't pull the trigger and neither did any other politician. The shooter did; obviously that reality escaped you, along with the shooter's own political leanings which were videotaped.
RBAgain
"In the YouTube profile, the account holder, identified as Loughner, lists "The Communist Manifesto" and "Mein Kampf" among his favorite books."
Was Palin responsible for Loughner and Valerie Jarrett's favorite books?
You fringe libs need to get a grip.
angryheart58
Take a deep breath and pull your head out. See the article at http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/historyonline/assassinations.cfm for some perspective.
SensiStar
Mrtjbv: Your right. I f Palin didn't have a thing to do with it. Why would she remove the targets.
Fox News was covering the vigil until Sarah Palin's name was mentioned. Then they cut to commercial.
It's not their fault but Palin took down her targets and Fox News Propaganda censored the vigil.
Why is that.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/fox-news-cuts-away-giffords-vigil-w hen-
FauxHunter
mein kampf?
i know you may be confused...listening to faux...but the nazis were radical conservatives...
military regime" Check
"burning/banning" books Check
unwavering blind adherence to "the party" Check
"morality laws" Check
t"he demonization of science" Check
(that you disagree with)
the discrediting of the Intelligentsia" Check
(anyone who disagrees with you and has proof UR wrong)
that's a right wing agenda and a left leaning one...
mtnhermit
RB - he also like Alice in Wonderland and gold!
Cpriestess
Yes Palin should be held responsible for her over the top rhetoric. She will now get up and say, "I didn't mean they should shoot people." Well Sarah words have consequences. Say what you mean and mean what you say.
But it is not just the right wing wackos guys. Both sides have their violence advocates. It is up to we the people to keep these discussions rational, the media will blow it ALL out of proportion.
All violence talking wackos need to be held accountable for their outrageous talk.
rightofrush
sensistar: it was removed for a reason called "sensitivity", something you must not understand. Paline or anyone else had anything to do with this. Should we blame Jackson or Sharpton for violence after they give their sermons?
Genni2002
Agreed dana.
Barbara416
Bravo dana64!
FauxHunter
@cpriestess
for once I actually agree with what you are saying.
cryptoad
Do you believe "Mein Kampf" to be liberal literature? Like Linchon said " .....sometimes its better to remain silent and appear ignorant than speak and remove all doubt".......
FauxHunter
@crypt
if you are talking to me
the last words contain a typo
it should read NOT a left leaning one.
but the rest of the post should have made what i said clear...
binkis
After the fact the 'friends' say he was liberal!!1 But But most liberals are not rabidly anti choice!...do not rail against the gov't and are not for automatic weapons!
Weapons/ targets terms aimed at people are totally different than rhetoric aimed at the Cap and trade bills or ideas or paper!
And the cover is 'like on surveyors maps' Please--She really thinks all American are as uninformed as her supporters are! Congress repubs are running around with wet socks--trying to avoid culpability!
whatthel
Snap out of it Howard.
maluminse
Palin made a target map. Included was the young woman who was shot in the head today. On her map she said 'Reload'.
The shooter was of feeble mind and clearly lost. Powerful words by the irresponsible are reckless weapons.
RBAgain
Thankfully he wasn't encouraged to draw a picture of Muhammad....then we would really have trouble wouldn't we? Those feeble minded people are so easily influenced. This reminds me of the pilot that flew into the IRS and all the libs called him a right wing wacko also...........in error.
maluminse
So military terminology has been used for ages. How does that make it less connected. People have been murdered for ages. Repetition = acceptance?? No.
Great power requires great responsibility. She and all who sought 'revolution' remedies against fellow Americans because health care is provided have blood on their hands.
"Reload" "Second Amendment remedies" Congrats Mrs. Palin he reloaded.
Mrtjbv
Very nicely expressed, maluminse!
shortcourse
Barrack Obama "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun...that is the Chicago way"
enochjohnson
After Barrack said that, "shotcourse" did 18 people get shot?
FauxHunter
@ enoch
that is the point they continually deflect.
and the fact this is one of Many murders tied to radical right agendas is apparently lost on them.
floridabob
"Respectful disagreement" has been absent from both political sides, that fact has predictable consequences. That we have seen! Yet many continue to deny they have any culpability.
DSchlageter
Citing the recent British study, showing that the more conservative you are, the larger the part of your brain that feels omnipresent fear and tends to primitive emotional response, this is the direct result of the prophets of hate for profit, Palin chief among them. The conservative disciples of fear speech receptive to Rush, Beck and Palin, because of their predisposition towards being afraid of something are easily manipulated. The ultimate outcome is that innocent people die, a 9 year old girl among them, the 22 year old killer was just the tragic byproduct of their fear for profit rhetoric. Palin IS responsible, "don't retreat reload", putting the congresswoman in her "crosshairs", "your freedom is being taken away", "government death panels". She is a propagandist along the lines of a Joseph Goebbels. She and her right wing pundit cohorts, don't present a constructive point of view, they intend to make money exploiting weak minded, scared conservative's and then claim to have no responsibility when their words incite tragedy. As a former republican, I hope the cowardly GOP representatives and senators that up till now have not resisted the garbage that now permeates the party will finally purge themselves of their fealty to Fox, Palin, Beck and Limbaugh. Tolerating them has diminished them and this country.
barrett
She's influential, right? Or no?
Desertpenguin
Everyone is responsible for what they put out for the public to see and read.
If you put out right-wing hate speech, you are contributing to the glorification of violence in our culture.
If you put out right-wing hate speech, you are part of the problem, and weak minds will take what you say literally.
wareagle82
and if you put out left wing hate speech, calling your enemies nazis, etc. are you still responsible, DP, or does being liberal mean never having to own your words. When Ed Schulz suggests that someone kill herself, is that love speech?
YearsLaterXXI
Desert, everyone including the left the liberals who took power. NP big mouth, insulting and arrogance.The left tv,stations, the stupid reporting 24 hours a day, that are not reporters but getting ratings.But no one has advocated killing shooting innocents and the officials,at random.,or killing ever.GG believes in owning guns, but not these weapons. There has to be changes, in how a lunatic,drug USER, and probably very against the govt.was able to buy a gun.. But these lunatics, are the first who want everything from the govt.,and the wealthy for free.This is a massacre by a lunatic, and the mood of the country, has been awfull,because both parties stopped civility,respect and getting rid of their bums. The country needed to see Politicians and elected officials held accountable,for the incompetent or unethical jobs. But This attack should unite the country. GG is the best of the best. Loved by both sides of the aisle. A real public servant, what we all yearn for. True,caring loving ,and concerned for her constituents.This is a Horrible, Tragedy,for all americans. So many deaths. The innocent, and the good ones are the ones who pay This is a true AMERICAN tragedy. GG voted Republican or Democrat bills, she voted like a true politician. Not for her party.This is a true example of public service, what our whole congress should be like,she even had brought up a bill for congress to take a pay cut, what the country needs to see.Sacrifice from Washington.But there is no one to blame. there are fringe groups always as the economy tanks ,jobs are lost ,the country got outsourced, we face them ever growing.The mental health system is wrong. This man should not have been on the streets with a gun. And who knows who he affiliates with ?We need focus on the real problems in our country and stop fixing Iraq and afghan, and spending our billions here.But both sides have been to balme if they add to the fuel. As GG recognized as a former Repub and as a Blue Dog,Democrat,neither party had the answer.Our condolences to all ,who have lost loved ones, our sorrow as a nation,that is faced with so many senless deaths.Our prayers for all those wounded , may they recover fully,It is a true tragedy for our country,a true attack on americans by a sick,lunatic,and we should all unite
Plantfagenet
Well, war... i guess that all depends on if someone acts on it.
As for right-wing hate speech... it IS acted on. Almost every time.
DicedPeas
Palin is such a pathetic hypocrite! I someone had uttered those words about her she would have gone ballistic!
TheThinker
Barrack Obama "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun...that is the Chicago way"
xlntcat
Oh make no mistake about it. The spin has already started. By tomorrow, Sarah will have painted herself as the REAL victim of the shooting spree. Because there is nothing she is better at than portraying herself as a victim.
RobbyS
maybe you have not see the video that went vital a few weeks ago. Some nutty rock group simulated her disembowlment on state. Since her nomination, the most hateful things have been said about her--and her family. There is a double standard: Clinton's daughter was off-limits to reporters, Bush's were not.
maluminse
Not just Palin though. Every prostitute who used fear and paranoia - every whore who called Americans to arms with utterances of "Second Amendment Remedies", "Reload" and other similar drivel to do their bidding in obtaining their goal of election are to blame for those injured and those now dead in their role and the attendant liability/responsibility as LEADERS.
RBAgain
mal, you are one sick POS.
Did you blame your recent diarhea on Palin also?
Plantfagenet
I agree, RB...
Those are just WORDS. Palin obviously doesn't mean anything when she says words.
FauxHunter
@rb
Denial...it's not just a river in Egypt..
FauxHunter
@mal
you speak the truth so you are attacked.
Jaybird2974
@Faux that is the norm for the for the party of deniers. Cover up and defend mode for all the Palin lovers.
RobbyS
You don't get the purpose of the 2nd Amendment, which was to prevent the Federal Government from disarming the States and the people. European states are all monarchies or highly centralized Parliamentary governments with virtually unlimited powers. Ironic that liberals who lament the military-industrial complex seek to expunge the ultimate check on military government.
newswoman
While Palin's crosshairs image was not well thought out, don't go overboard and blame her for everything that happened in AZ. You can disagree with someone without thinking they are evil.
Rescuedog
Markos Moulitsas had her in his crosshairs too. Actually he put her on a "target list", not in crosshairs, but as we all know, that's not the distinction that matters.
See here: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25/1204/74882/511/541568
Also, see this screen-capped blog entry from Daily Kos from January 6, 2011 entitled: "My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!" (now deleted from the site)
http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/screen-shot- 2011-01-08-at-1-56-04-pm1.png
JGinAZ
So, are you saying that words matter?
CattieM
This is absurd. Target has more than one meaning. Nobody is suggesting that Palin is accountable because she used the word "target." It's actually because she used crosshairs from a gun scope, then linked to the map with the words, "Don't retreat, reload!" Where does Markos use the word "reload" or anything that even hints at violence or guns against these specific people?
As for the phrase "dead to me," it is a common metaphor and does not suggest anyone else do any killing or attacking. Palin specifically asked for "help" in ousting the people on her target list and urged her followers to reload. In other words, she incited others to take action. Saying someone is "dead to me" does not call for any action on anyone's behalf or incite anything.
Your attempt to create false equivalency fails 100%. Further, Markos did not delete the post--the person who wrote it did after ridiculous arguments like yours emerged.
Surely you know the difference between saying, "I could eat a horse," and showing a horse with a rifle scope over it and the words "Reload and help me get this horse!" Which person sounds like they really want to attack the horse?
Backgammon
Hey Howard...Post the Daily Kos target of Congresswoman Giffords long before Palin.
While the Liberals rant on and on about how Palin needs to take responsibility for today's tragic shooting in Arizona, no one remembers the site that started targeting the Congresswoman. It certainly was not Palin.
http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-3 -05-33-pm.png
Looks like the shooter identifies more with people on the left.
"As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy"
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/ar...
Artist50
Mother Jones has a newer interview with a long time friend that says he had gone on a health kick and lost weight and quit doing smoking dope. That as far as knew he was clean. It's an in depth
look at the shooter and how he started to change a couple of years ago and become obsessed with Gabby.
They found a letter from Gabby's staff from 2007 when he attended an event similar to yesterdays. He obviously had had a "thing" for her for over 4 yrs which precedes Obama or Palin. He's a sick man and I strongly believe that words matter but I'm not sure they had anything to do with this case. What saddens me is that instead of learning something today this post is full of the same old vitriol. It can get worse - I lived through the 60's.
I
CattieM
People change, don't they? A long time ago, people would have pointed out that Dick Morris identified with people on the left.
The problem is that the left does not go ballistic over abortion (Loughner and O'Reilly do), the left does not promote gold as the one true currency (Loughner and Beck do), the left does not associate with white supremacy groups (Loughner and Beck do), the left does not express hatred or disdain of government (Loughner, Beck, and Palin do) and the left does not believe in or advocate violence (Loughner and many on the right do).
When was the last time you heard about the left calling for "revolution" (ala Beck and Bachmann?)
I love how you use someone's Twitter statement as "evidence" for Loughner's views. I can go make a Twitter account, too, and claim all sorts of things. At least the Mother Jones interviewers verified Loughner's friend's statements.
Yes, Loughner had identified Gabrielle as someone he disliked in 2007, but he didn't decide it was time to shoot her until 2011. Maybe he never would have had his animosity ratcheted up so much he wanted to kill her if it weren't for the hostile climate toward democratic politicians in Arizona. No doubt he heard some of his fellow Arizonans say pretty vile things about Giffords during the campaign season--you know, those people who made death threats against her for her healthcare vote.
Palin did not cause Loughner to target Giffords. But she has been a leading voice in ratcheting up the violent rhetoric and dehumanizing and demonizing democrats. She also regularly vocally supports those who do it even more than she does, like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh.
And saying you'll "if they bring a knife, we'll bring a gun" is definitely not language I like, but it does not paint a bullseye on any person and does not identify any person for being targeted. Nor does it incite attacks; instead, it advocates vigorous self-defense. There's quite a difference.
Wordcommando
Total agreement! Let's stop the polite bullshit, please! The Republicans abandoned it long ago and if there was ever a time for Progressives to stand up and say ENOUGH and point well-deserved middle-fingers of blame, it's NOW. Anything less than Sarah Palin prostrate on the ground BEGGING forgiveness from the victims' and their families is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.
shortcourse
Barrack Obama "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun..that is the Chicago way!"..........
gustav
Isn't it interesting when a wordsmith writes words do not matter
rsbeers
Disagree with Howard. The nasty right-wing, Tea Party, Palin-driven crosshairs mentality stirs up the hatred and has created a venal climate in areas of the US.
See coverage from the UK:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/us-politics/ 8248399/Gabrielle-Giffords-father-The-whole-Tea-Party-were-her-enemies.html
overdue
You've been watching The Howard Kurtz Show, brought to you by the NRA.
The NRA, proud sponsor for 140 years of guns and they people who own them, but not of the people who pull the gun's triggers.
Southpaw
Thank you. Let's not forget the NRA's implication in yesterday's tragedy.
overdue
I think Southpaw may be "taking the piss" out on me, but the truth is that the NRA is nearly always in the shadows when it comes to gun violence, ready to lobby on behalf of their contingents.
bbqbeau
camper stop watching Faux and join the saner side of the planet
lennon2010
The Congresswoman was on Fox all the time. Saw her many times with Megan kelly and Greta.
dissatisfied_wearer
Howard, I understand your desire to champion freedom of speech at all costs, but political speech has consequences. I suppose that Nazi ideology about dehumanization, blame, and violence toward people had no consequences? If you'd been writing in the 1930s, would you write (paraphrasing your own words above): "Kristallnacht is not about a year old speech at a nazi party rally, it is about a bunch of nuts who don't value human life?"
Nemo888
Awesome dissatisfied.
This comment has been removed by The Daily Beast's editors.
MissButterfly
As soon as something like this happens, left wingers look for some way to blame right wingers. Those who know this nut - who was probably paranoid schizophrenic - say he's a far left wing radical druggie.
Radio talkers and FOX News conservatives should go right on talking. It was this person's family and those around him that didn't heed the numerous and huge red flags he sent up - he should have been in a psychiatric hospital.
JGinAZ
To my knowledge, the full body of research to date on his political leanings consists of one Tweet by someone who barely knew him in high school, and "far left wing radical" is not a direct quote from that Tweet. If you have any other sources, please enlighten us.
Genni2002
MissButterfly, why don't you explain how a person gets coverage for a paranoid schizophrenic in the U.S.?
TheMadRealist
Hypocrites! Call out your own first if you want anyone to listen to your BS.
http://images.sodahead.com/blogs/000291320/dnc_target_xlarge.jpeg
Bamos99
@Howard. No, that's no ALL this is about. @Mrtjbv, on point.
diogeron
Well, what a stupid column on this subject, Howie. You must have been prepping for your TV show today and just tossed this one off without much reflection. Of course, Palin, Limbaugh aren't directly responsible for the shooting, but they do contribute heavily to the rhetorical drumbeat that implicitly translates to angry people with a screw loose the idea that "second amendment remedies" are the answer to problems. Any student of history can tell you that while there is no causal relationship between such rhetoric and criminal actions, the correlation is there and people with big platforms like Palin et al should accept the responsibility that comes with having a big bull horn.
xlntcat
They encouraged the one pulling the trigger to pull it.
ConstitutionalRights
While the right has their hard core provacatours, so does the left. The direct accusation by Keith Obermann is about is flagrant as well as stupid as they come.
Here are the facts no one is addressing.
1) Arizona has a illegal immigration problem (aka smuggling of drugs and people across the border).
2) The people of Arizona have pleaded with the Obama administration to help, to no avail.
3) The people of Arizona wrote a law, fashioned nearly word for word from the federal law, aimed to address that issue (oh my god, I used the word "aimed").
4) The Obama adminstration is suing Arizona for enforcing the new state law written to help since the Feds are failing to enforce the Federal law.
5) Tension is rising in the area which is EVOLVING on race lines BECAUSE of the lack of enforcement. I know of no one who dislikes Mexican or any Central or South American for their race or heritage, only those who sneak in, because those who sneak in are participating with smugglers to get here, and that undermines everyone.
No one should point fingers here, but the buck does stop somewhere, and if it stops anywhere it should stop first at the local police who knew about this guy and didn't react effectively, and then at President Obama's door for failing to listen to the people of the United States as a whole, and Arizonans in particular. Maybe if he had been dealing with things that were his responsibility, like the border and jobs, instead of feel good daddycare, maybe we would all be in better shape.
xlntcat
Arizona like all border states has seen a consistent decrease in illegal immigration since 2006. The politicians whined and have been sent multiple resources to deal with their problem, however, they could have taken the help wanted sign down at the border and saved the rest of us a lot of money.
OhHappyDay
You must be kidding. Talk about tangential relationships. Blame Obama for this?
ChezMJ
I'm utterly DISGUSTED by Howard Kurtz carrying water for Sarah Palin. What she did was incendiary & irresponsible & Howard Kurtz should not be in any way excusing it, whether or not it was directly responsible for the Tucson massacre.
xlntcat
Well stated!
millermp1@gmail.com
Of course, when I Bush Jr should be killed, the entrails of his children eaten by dogs, and Cheney stripped of his flayed toad skin, I mean it as a common political METAPHOR!
I mean, jeez, lighten up, People.
Someone knocking already... FBI?
fgoodwin
Don't blame the Tea Party, Fox, Palin, Beck or Rush:
"As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy," the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09shooter.html
bushtheliberator
Mental case/nut job kills six innocents >> that's tragic
Leftists spin tragedy for political opportunism >> merely disgusting
But Soooo predictable
xlntcat
Palin began inciting violence in the 2008 campaign as she was tailed from state to state by neo-nazis, known klansman and other white supremacist easily identified by their prison tatoos. Chants of "Kill him" "bomb them" etc were staples of Palin rallies.Moreover, Sharron Angle followed up Palins "cross hair" threat by urging Second Amendment remedies if the Tea Party candidates were unsuccessful at the polls. Nonetheless, the author insults your intelligence by asking you to "suspend disbelief" and attribute the carrying out of Palin's dictate to a "disturbed individual."
kiksadi50
kurtz is a palin kiss ass."all liberal media are pro-choice": prove it. And what the hell does that have to do with palin,beck,O'Reilly,Tucker Carlson,Hannity, coulter & others who work for Fox news in the conservative media rationalizing events like the murder of Dr.Tiller? Palin has consistently used the phrase "don't re-treat, re-load" in politics. That's not a gun analogy? Don't give us this c**p about palin being unfairly demonized & victimized. she is a big girl,responsible for what she models,what she says & how her words affect people.
Bob Quigley
So often Mr. Kurtz is busy looking at the tree when the forest around him is on fire. Republican leaders have looked away and pushed you-do-it-to. They pour fuel on the fire with 2nd right solutions, gun sights, shoot with your candidate meetings, socialism, birther... on and on. Republican leader Mr. Armey offered a golden oldie today on Ms. Amanpour's program implying that Rep. Giffords brought the attack on herself by not having law enforcement on hand. Republican leaders need to decide if staying in power at all costs is worth the destruction they've wrought on our country.
TheHappyLiberal
Palin doesn't mean it. She's just an ugly stupid person.
sandyej
Palin's use of violent language - i.e. "reload, reload", and her graphics - rifle sightlines are a disturbing example of what is wrong with the U.S. today. Palin is a rabble-rouser and she is going to have to learn that words - and actions - have consequences. She needs to wise up and accept the part she played in this tragedy and in the increasingly vitriolic atmosphere in the States in general. Given half a chance, she will destroy this country.
galensdad
Perhaps Target Department Stores are equally culpable. Yes?
innocentcitizen
this kid was a leftist pot head, obama and holder are to blame for their polarizing rhetoric. they demonized the people of arizona and called them racists for wanting to protect their borders and created rage and hatred among the deranged left. no wonder this nut job went off. obama caused it. he's playing politics w/peoples lives
nikkya
that is what the media does
it is amazing to me that this past summer when the media was teeheeing with the teabagger/thugs and making threats to my pres. there was no thought to civility now everyone has to be careful what they say well along with all the gun slingers and rethugs and all those who have been perpetuating this up until last week has to take their own responsibility for what has happened
Jeffin90019
I wonder if Palin is in the least bit bothered by the fact that a little girl is among the dead. I doubt it.
hypersurf
Howard, don't make excuses. Either you are purposely oblivious to the political environment, or you are too naive to be a commentator. Light a match is a simple act that many people do it that cause no harm. Light a match near a powder peg would cause an explosion. The same act in different environment has dramatically different consequences. Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, and their co-agitators are not only the persons who light the match, they are the people who place the powder pegs too.
Another example is the John Brown's act that ignited the civil war. If there was no charged environment, it was simple a simple criminal act. But in that environment, the consequence was the civil war. The same thing can be said about the ignition of 1st world war.
anghiari
Jonathan Alter, Howard Kurtz....none of these bottom feeders can resist trying to get a piece of this "tragedy" pie. Are they so clueless that nobody really gives a damn what they think? and I am a lefty...media aholes give us a break...you don't know how to tell the truth and you haven't a clue what the public is thinking and mostly nothing you say influences a thing that I do.
ConservativeMediaLies
C'mon, really Howard? Do we not see the difference here? It wasn't just the crosshairs, it was the innuendo's, the hate speech's, the lies and distortions, the constant railing against our govt to instill fear into our citizens, etc etc. They were literally making a mountain out of mole hills. These rightwing nutjobs even got some recruits to try and not deploy because of Obama's birth certificate. Of course the blame doesn't fully rest on Sarah, there is always fox news too, but no one ever stepped in, including the media pushing the tea party lunacy for their own ratings, to ever tell their cult followers to remain civil and NOT to incite violence. Quite the opposite actually. We can blame the gunman all we want but others put those ideas in his head in the first place. He didn't exactly go to Disneyworld on a killing spree, this was pre-meditated against people he perceived as 'the enemy'. In a sane society no one should be defending Sarah Palin right now, eff her right now, a 9yr old girl lost her life plus many others. For "Pro-Life" conservatives, human life is cheap.
dana64
WELL SAID thank you.
We really should start to be OUTRAGED at the HATRED DICK ARMEY has started with the TEabaggers whom he has used as foot soldiers in his own ARMY .2nights ago you should have seen how he called theGOV a MONSTER who must be wrestled to the Ground .
That RANT was on CNN Parker-Spitzer show. at 8 pm
RBAgain
What a group of left wing fringe haters we have here. Trying to blame the right for the action of some "Mein Kampf" psycho is beyond stupidity.
FauxHunter
again...rb
mein kampf....right wing political thought...
so what is your point?
that the shooter was a right winger???
Maggie22
Don't forget either that Byron Williams said that Glenn Beck had told him how evil the Tides were. He wasn't heading there strictly on his on volition. I agree that Dick Armey and the Koch brother have blood on their hands.
dana64
I was just thinking how the RELIGIOUS GOPers behind the ABORTION movement also USED some crazy guy to KILL Doctors.
That is they INCITE with their words so Some crazy out there will DO THE DIRTY WORK FOR THEM.
just like BIN Laden uses boys to commit suicide killing .
shortcourse
by the logic of your post...leftists are baby killers.....
newswoman
When will those on the right realize that "Mein Kampf" is rightwing fascist literature??? So the shooter read right and left wing writings. Duh. He was obviously unhappy and sick so he read books written by others who felt the same.
Suzanne12
ConservativeMedia
Have you even listened to Keith Olbermann on MSNBC? All he does is try to incite the left to hate the right. That said I'm of the school of thought that believes crazy people will snap over anything. To try to turn this into a political attack is the approach of an amateur. If you want to pretend to care just to get off on attacking Palin, go right ahead but it renders you a marginal participant in the conversation.
UWSJEFF
You're right. But Keith acknowledged his part and apologized. Furthermore he calls on every part of the political spectrum to repudiate the hateful talk
Mike1c
Right! I constantly see Olbermann screaming to take up arms. KO has all sorts of hidden messages in his rhetoric to "kill", "eliminate", etc. Man, only you and I can see through to his violent marching orders. And his minions by the millions who watch his show each night are glued to the screen like flys to their paper.
Man. You're lost in Howard's world too. That, "Well, to be fair, they do it too." It doesn't equate. There is a difference and Olbermann's explained it so that its crystal clear, but you want to perpetuate the myth that its the same on each side. Its not. Today we lost 7, almost 8, to a wacko with a gun who followed demented, extremist rhetoric and lies.
UWSJEFF
"Left, right, middle - politicians and citizens - sane and insane. This morning in Arizona, this age in which this country would accept "targeting" of political opponents and putting bullseyes over their faces and of the dangerous blurring between political rallies and gun shows, ended." You know who said that? Obermann. Yeah he's really inciting hate
Margot707
Mike1c - "I constantly see Olbermann screaming to take up arms. "
What are you watching? Does Keith have an evil twin on Faux News? If anything, the message on MSNBC is quite the opposite of "taking up arms." Unless you are talking about his tongue-in-cheek cry to get out the torches and pitch forks during his "Worst Persons" segment..
newswoman
Keith does not try to incite hate. But he does point out those who do. He is impassioned but he doesn't spin the truth or lie. You mistake it for hate speech, Suzanne. Listen more closely next time.
donquijoterocket
If this putz had really had anything it would have posted videos of all the "hateful" speech that emanates fro Olbermann's show.Since there's so much of it you'd think just a little would be easy to find.OK putz crazy people might snap over anything,but what message, what symbolism is most likely to impel the unbalanced to snap in the way this one did? Want to marginalize yourself putz keep telling yourself that words and acrions do not have consequences as a mode for defending Princess Sparkle Caribou.
ConstitutionalRights
Hate speech? Have you listened to the finger pointing, blame game, not my fault BS of the President the last two years? Give me a break. Those who continue to not take responsibility start at the top in DC.
1) Obamas birth certificate is, and always has been a red herring. However it is curious why he spent so much money and time hiding it before he released it, but is just about his "open" policy.
2) Sarah? Give me a break. She was bludgeoned the minute she became a VP candidate. Can you imagine if that same treatment was given Obama?
Why is it that if a woman in politics has a "R" next to her name she is a nut job but if it is a "D" she is a queen ready for annoitment? If the media treated her and other Republican and Independent women the same was as they do Democratic women, we might have a reasonable debate. The hate speech used against her is volumes greater than most anyone, but instead of whining, she stands tall. She had nothing to do with this.
3. Fox news? Lets compare them to CNN. The great CNN was in Iraq for a decade, but only was allowed to promote the "good" going on there, and the "news" correspondents never left the office to investigate, they reported what they were told to. News agencies are supposed to investigate and report, not promote. You've been brainwashed by your own sources. Take a moment to give yourself equal time. Watch MSNBC, Fox, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS and perhaps even BBC or other offshore broadcasts, and you may give yourself a reasonable chance to be balanced. NO new has it all, decide for yourself, don't believe one side. And remember, just because several sources may say the same thing, doesn't mean they are independent, they may very well be owned by the same people.
4. Blame others? Knock it off. We blame the people to acted on things. I may not agree with with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it. THAT is freedom.. The nut case here is just a nut case. Otherwise start gearing up to blame Columbine and other events like that on the left, because those nut jobs were left thinking whackos.
5. Conservatives - human life is cheap? From my count, preservatives are trying to conserve our constitution and life, while the democrats prefer "baby death camps" known as abortion centers. By the way, did you know that the person who originated abortion and their purpose? It was a Nazi nurse, whose stated intention was to "eliminate mudpeople". Aside from being a rascist process, a moral dilema and a national heartbreak, the only rational reason for abortion should be the health of the mother, which is a pretty broad stroke, However today it is used like toothpaste to brush away the "mistake". Who really thinks human life is cheap?
UNIVERSALIS
yeah, the poor poor right!
So unfair what is happening to their made up battles against made up enemies, specially when guns are involved and promoted as last resource to assert their "trues"... poor reckless mindless nutsos that antagonize as lifestyle regardless of reason and civility.
Rhett6
Amen.
We need to remind ourselves that all things start at the top.
Obama has been not only the least competent but the most divisive president in the history of our country.
Just read some of the comments above,
Conservatives blaming liberals,
liberals blaming conservatives
for a horrible tragedy that was caused by a mentally disturbed man.
UNIVERSALIS
Rhett6, so the righters say!
Blame Obama for this violence! How consistent with the RECKLESS rethoric with the right!
We did not approve of BUSH DISGRACEFUL government, but you we did not fell into the LUNATIC FRENZY that the rabid right wing displays at every opportunity!
Your case against Obama becomes weaker and weaker with every VICTORY for the democratic progress!
Your case against REASON becomes weaker with every demented proguns "freedom terrorist" you protect!
cydfan
Well...one answer to that question might be the AZ legislature who decided that it's CHEAPER to deny a transplant to a person who might not merit one than it would be to someone more deserving. By the way, who make those judgements anyway? Where are the cries about death panels and McCain's impassioned pleas about figuring out who's killing Grandma?
newswoman
Constitutionalrights, your rant is off the target. Birther talk??? The abortion rights people prefer 'baby death'??? Abortion was a Nazi trick to eliminate mud people??? You have gone way off the track. Take a pill and get some rest. Things will be better in the morning.
camper
palin is a jerk... lets get that out of the way. The Daily beast and all the other blogs that are playing this sick game today are all jerks too. That said ,Palin's target rhetoric was put out with the intent of getting people worked up. IT WORKED. Lets all let our media outlets know that we do not want them engaged in this game.
dana64
AGREED
Howard should really be ashmed of himself for this post.
Dont blame PALIN ?????
for heaven's sake
Howard
ARE YOU BLIND and DEAF ????
Suzanne12
dana,
You've always been a ball of anger in search of someone to blame. Howard is right. So the question is do you want clarity and information on this situation or do you want to try to distort the facts so you get some traction on your anger? I'm guessing you'll go for the traction.
ConservativeMediaLies
Suzanne
It can't get much clearer....Try taking off your blinders.
rsbsail
You are sick. Please get help.
steveknows
Suzanne, I couldn't agree with you less. But keep it up, I really enjoy reading overblown psychobabble. And you are a natural. I have clarity and information. You know, the stuff that you choose to ignore. The kid was under the influence of the lunatic right. And if and when they find his accomplice, I've got a feeling that he won't be a liberal. Feel free to disagree. I'm sure you'll convince someone.
FauxHunter
suz
that is a question you should be asking yourself everyday.
they amount of misinformation you post here, but stand doggedly by, is proof that you should first put on your own oxygen mask B4 you try to help anyone else.
donquijoterocket
Is anyone surprised that Howard maintains his mediawhore stance and deftly tries to ride the conservative parsed middle?
brooklyn88
really? Having a map with targets and list of names is not inciting crazy people that follow her is not her fault? I hope she can sleep at night. Youbetcha she will. Ignorance is bliss.
jakfirat
Give me a break, Howard. Really.
dooreen
My opinion is, when it comes to Sarah Palin what she is going to say is very unpredictable,
The people that I know that were in sports writing sort of talked like that, power play, shoot, score, and of course if a woman wanted to be a sports writer they would have to be cute, or said the guys. So Sarah Palin is cute, that is predictable, she will wear a nice outfit, that is predictable, I would think she would use sports terminology, which I found useful, in sports psychology I find wording as very positive, it is about going beyond limits, and it is about thinking like a winner, not accepting loss, not accepting being a loser. Some call that narcissism, I wouldn't. Winners I think take pride in winning, and so they should, where is the pride in losing?
So Who knows what SP would say, but I am sure she has never shot anyone, or intentionally incited someone to shoot someone, unless you count the war.
FauxHunter
no but
she created a monster with hate speech to achieve a political outcome...
but as in Frankenstein's Monster...she can't control her own destructive creation...
and this is Not the first time right wing rhetoric has led to murder of people who politically disagree with them...there is a pattern...
google "tilden"
UNIVERSALIS
It is very likely that Palin wasn't the only source of lunacy for this kid! Remember how much winding up of the schizomachine mr Beck does. I bet many others see Beck as yet another piece of the puzzle that is the rabid fundamentalist of the right!
steveknows
It's not about what she WOULD say, it's about what she DID say. And about what those that she supported, Sharron Angle, in particular, said. To every manner of moron and lunatic out there. In the cynical hope that one of them would act accordingly, and that they would be in the clear.
GinaRN
Sarah Palin and the Tea party morons who talk about "second amendment remedies" are clearly responsible.
The shame of our nation is that many of us love guns, and our movies, legends and history clearly state that, "you can solve most problems with a gun".
The gun industry has blood on it's hands.
John Lennon's murder was enough for me to loathe them.
Those who say that the Left is "equally violent" are Liars.
Dinerosdeb
If u don't like guns theres always other countries!
FauxHunter
if you do...
please move to mexico and enjoy guns there
(90% American)
that are in the hands of drug lords...
Where's your head at
FauxHunter you are a lying sack of crap,90% American guns my eye. Mexican drug lords don't buy RPG-7s,hand grenades,50.cal BMGs,40mm grenade launchers from your local American Wal-Mart or gun shop dip-Sh#t! Their obtaining most of their arms from the international black-market and the corrupt Mexican Army.
Genni2002
Diner,
you should consider moving to another country because you do not understand the concept behind the United States of America. It is where people's rights are not supposed to be trampled and people are supposed to be able to live without fear or repression from asswipes.
FauxHunter
I see you watch Faux news
and believe their BS
and you people wonder why we Blame your blood thirsty candidates for violence. You people believe anything Faux says
The Myth of 17 Percent
According to a Fox News report, titled "The Myth of 90 Percent," only "17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S." But the 17 percent figure is a myth, too. The reporters made some mistaken assumptions about how many guns had actually been traced to U.S. sources.
Where's your head at
@FauxHunter Las Zetas is a Mexican Drug cartel whose members are former Mexican Special Forces and they are obtaining their weapons from their buddies that are still in the Mexican Army,not Wal -Mart or the local sporting goods store in America, you moron.The stories I'm referring to that show weapons like RPG-7s and hand grenades captured by the Mexican Police from the cartels were posted by AP and the Russian Times America on YouTube, not Fox! Also, if the "17%" and the" 90%" numbers are fake, then why are you using the 90% number in your argument?
shortcourse
Guns helped found this country....kept the British from taxing and government control....kept the French in check....saved Europe in 2 world wars....keep a perspective on guns....without them the world would be overrun by dictators.
UNIVERSALIS
guns with no JUST CAUSE is plain VIOLENCE!
Where did you left civilization?!
Guns are not AN END on itself.
FauxHunter
ummm..without guns there would be No military dictatorships with guns to defend against with guns...
blew your mind?
newswoman
Shortsighted, we are not talking about the MILITARY here. We are talking about crazies with guns on our streets! Don't get off course. (What do you mean, "kept the French in check?)
UNIVERSALIS
Palin is to blame as all other right wing rabid mobsters with a MICROPHONE!!
They are reckless radicals offering plenty of belligerent candy for the crazy, undereducated and the deranged while getting rich at civility expense!
Add GUNS to that intellectual catastrophe and you have a collective of armed and dangerous reckless puppets.
Palin and her right wing ramifications both in the media and outside, are the WORSE thing has happened to this country, when allowing IRRESPONSIBLE rhetoric that is not only plainly DUMB but incendiary disguised as freedom of speech!
WHERE IS PUBLIC RESPONSIBILITY!
That segment of the right wing ANTIGOVERNMENT radicals are far from offering civil engagement for progress. Their frontier mentality is anachronistic and plainly dangerous for a civil society, and their claims are only TANTRUMS OF MISINFORMATION!
BECK, PALIN, and FOX MEDIA are to blame for this!
Quaid33
As much as I can't stand Palin and Fox News Corp, they can't be held responsible for the actions of a deranged lunatic. This is a travesty and the individuals responsible will be brought to justice. Leave it at that and move on, lest out of respect for the victims.
UNIVERSALIS
so you say, in contrast to the THOUSANDS of VOTERS that are fed up with the crusade against REASON AND CIVILITY FOX news has declared on the AMERICAN PUBLIC!
Just wait and see how the stupidity of the right will be their own demise.
tgefilms
So if Sarah Palin scream "fire" in a crowded movie theater and 5 people, including a 9 year old girl, were trampled to death we shouldn't hold her accountable either?
Look she knows, as do Glenn Beck and other right wing bloviators, good and well what their audience is: gun nuts and losers, so they had to have at least known the possibility that their words could incite someone to violence. Let's not whitewash it this time.
ConservativeMediaLies
EXACTLY! If she DIDN'T know who her audience is than she is STUPIDER than we all thought. Its a NO WIN situation for her.
Dinerosdeb
I'm not a loser and I watch fox
William Odee
Here's the funny thing, I hear that when you practice the business of winding up crazy people with access to guns, it sometimes works.
dana64
Howard
Your title surely is wrong because it looks as if you trying to defend Palin
PALIN and all the TEAbaggers army of DICK ARMEY are surely to blame for the HATRED they have created in this country of the MONSTER GOV (as Armey said on CNN spitzer) and the DEMOCRATS.
They did everything JUST TO GET BACK TO POWER.
They have POISONED the Climate in America .
They are i say UN Patriotic because they have created an UGLY IMAGE of AMERICA......................ask any observer who has not been brainwashed.
DO you know what people OVERSEAS think of US ?
I dare not even write it here. !
SHAME on the GOPers and their foot soldiers.
How many times bricks have been thrown at DEMS .....they even SPAT on some , and now this TERRORIST attack.
And yes The TEAbagging movement was and is a TERRORIST movement..................just like the ANTI ABORTION who killed Doctors .
Dinerosdeb
If you ever stated in a hotel overseas you would know that the Europeans are being poisoned by CNN which spouts antiamerican hatred 24/7/365!!!!
An American company puking anti American propaganda!!! Sooo what do you think the Europeans will think when a USA based news agency disses the USA?
FauxHunter
nope
been an European blogs...
they think we are all Bushes/O'riellys...they even admit they believe they started hating us with all the Bush hate mongering rhetoric/bullying...
they used to think we were great!
UNIVERSALIS
ANTIAMERICAN?!
Are you saying that being against Violence is Antiamerican?!
Teabaggers and other radicals are far from understanding CIVILITY and PROGRESS as the main traits of the AMERICAN EXPERIENCE!
Stop hijacking this country with your dumb nationalistic extremism! Reason is not "antiamerican"!
donquijoterocket
Again, since you are in possession of this body of common knowledge it ought to have been a relatively easy matter to extract an example or two of what you're talking about and present it as evidence for your assertion. I suspect the absence of any audio or video evidence of your claims speaks volumes both for those claims and for yourself.
mtnhermit
Fundamentalist thinking - no matter the religion or political party or faction or country - is against anything and anyone but itself. Mix its literalism into any form of government and you create countries like Iran. We need to pay attention to this NOW. Those who are making excuses for hateful actions actually need to put their energies into some careful evaluation of their own behaviors and attitudes and come out strongly against the hate speech and hateful behaviors - which definitely incites. There is NO excuse for it. It is not about getting votes - it is clearly sick! It takes everything and crosses lines with it and those who follow such thought are so caught up in their own self-righteousness and vain-glory that they cannot even use common sense.
And this does not even address those who are complacent - the ones silently watching in feigned innocence or those who make hollow grandiose statements of concern.
Is this indeed what The Right stands for? Why are the voices of the Right either silent or making excuses or using playground speak to justify actions and attitudes? And if they do speak out, it is for the moment or the long haul? It is high time that The Right began accepting responsibility for what it incites. If your stance on any subject incites murder, it is time to see how far off the deep end your cause has gone and WHO incites you to think that such an attitude is justified.
It is time for The Right to answer the question: Are you Americans first or your party or faction first?
No political opinion is worth a child's life. No political opinion is worth anyone's life! There is NO justification for it at all.
Suzanne12
mtn
You ask..." Are you Americans first or your party or faction first?" Conservatives love their country. Liberals are always trashing this country. Conservatives would answer your question by pledging their allegiance to America. Liberals? You tell me.
UNIVERSALIS
Suzanne12, by trashing reason in favor arms, you are not "loving this country"! You are nothing than a radical jihadist!
But how would you know that if you think middle grounds and reason are for pussies and violence is the answer to "loving america"!?
Conservatives are radicalizing america.
mtnhermit
Suz-
Your answer tells the whole story in a nutshell:
Conservatives are exclusively the only people in America capable of being patriots, being right, or being citizens. That pretty much says it all. Your way or no way and to hell with the rest of us, right?
Excuse me...I need to go throw up.
FauxHunter
suz
you mistake having an opinion Opposite to yours as criticism against The Country.
yet You are constantly ranting against what this countries legally, democratically elected officials have recently accomplished...THINGS they promised those who voted for them they would accomplish.
I know Fox does not supply you with reality so I understand this point may have escaped your notice.
Health Care Reform
Wall Street Reform
Afghanistan
repeal of DADT (which the Majority of the country Is for)
all things you and/or your leadership may be against BUT that a majority of your fellow citizens VOTED for...
I'd say if I measured you by your own measuring stick YOUR anti-American
steveknows
@Suzanne
When are you pathetic shitheads going to stop wrapping yourselves in the flag? You are not any more American than liberals, and most likely you are less so. You think that you are, because it's something that you keep telling each other, along with all the other lies. Patriotism has been called, "the last refuge of the scoundrel". Liberals already know this about the right wing, and their disdain for the rights of all people here. Save your crap for the morons who take you seriously. They're not here.
shortcourse
@Dana..."DOCTORS" save lives....abortionists take lives....
FauxHunter
@short
if you or yours needed one of those medical procedures people like you banned and died as a result I'm sure you'd finally wake up to the suffering and loss of life you are responsible.
Ignorance kills...unfortunately it often kills innocent bystanders.
newswoman
Dana, sometimes an abortion saves the life of a woman. But you are too ideological to understand that there are many reasons why an abortion may be indicated. Read some medical literature sometime. You might learn a thing or two.
dooreen
Often violence is senseless. Overshooting a basket in basketball, yes the word is shoot, takes focus.
So Sarah Palin in my opinion uses sports terminology alot, but I think this situation is not about SP, it is about our own fear of random violence.
What do you think a hero really is.
Isn't it someone who is afraid but will do what have you anyway, cause it might make the world a better place. So they put their fear and self aside and do what they may think is right. But they might not always say the right thing.
I mean this is a terrible thing that happened, so of course people want to make sense of it. Sometimes things don't make sense. Sometimes a person is unstable and will react violently. And that is why so many good people stay out of politics.
FauxHunter
if someone is murdered
who do you look at???
Who has made threats? who has seen you as an enemy?
the tea party/palin, that mind set and their followers gave this woman death threats, broke her glass door, talked about "taking her out" with gun site images...
that's where you are forced to start....because of
These extremists are Not innocent bystanders....they did not pull the gun but they are still potential accessories to the crime because a twisted mind could see there blood thirsty calls to "eliminate" as justification for their actions.
example, in a community where everyone begins hating "mexicans" this is supported by the rhetoric of the leadership...then a hispanic or two are murdered...not robbed...murdered...and it's by young white people...who admit they hate mexicans...this is Long Island, NY
In communities where the power structure and the community see any gay Americans as the spawn of Satan...a boy is viciously murdered by two straight guys...who felt they could justify the killing of a man half their size and weight if the could (falsely) Prove he "came unto them" (a situation every 14 yr old girl has to deal with From sick adult straight men for decades without killing...this is Mathew Shepard...
but you see no connection there...
Pugesue
Sorry Howard. I do not agree with you. Palin's irresponsible behavior and comments DO CONTRIBUTE to the insanity of those who are already insane or borderline insane. No, she did not create their insanity but she did CONTRIBUTE to it. Irresponsible people---who speak first and think later....if at all, regardless of their political affiliation or ideology, need to be more MINDFUL about the impact of their words and actions. All people, like this man, need is a spark. Palin, and others like her, polarize people and create the spark for those who are on the edge of imploding or exploding. Accountability should apply to everyone.....even the sacred cows like Palin, Limbaugh and the other idiot. They are all in it for the money and the ego-bolstering notoriety. They don't give a rat's behind about the impact of their insane behavior on others or society as a whole.
FauxHunter
then you are blind
gay bashing (attackers admit that they are motivated by hatred for "gays")
murder of physicians (attackers Say they are part of the vitriolic component of the right to lifers)
murder of people "presumed" to be Mexican and therefore illegal (attackers said attack was racially motivated)
attack in NYC of a Muslim cab driver during terror Mosque hate rallies (perpetrated said attack was racially motivated)
why aren't all you Righties appalled by the hate speech...with clear co sequences within your own political spheres.ALL i HEAR IS EXCUSES AND DEFLECTIONS....THAT MAKES YOU ALL RESPONSIBLE
Edmund Burke said: all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
try at least speaking out against it...then you wont have to be so defensive..
sycodon
All you have to do is peruse the Daily KOS or Huffington Post to learn about real hate speech.
Say, have you made any posters of Bush with target sights on him again? Maybe your buddies in Hollywood can make ANOTHER movie about how Bush could be assassinated.
You're pathetic POS.
Genni2002
Agreed. If you serve a person too many drinks in a bar and he gets into an accident, you can be held liable. This is the exact same situation.
nortonclybourn
Obama gave those assholes who showed up for meetings with assault rifles a pass, but no more. There will have to be more security now.
But public officials still won't have to be pussies like George Bush who had people thrown out of town hall meetings because their bumper stickers were critical of him.
henryragnar
Maybe Obama felt he had to give a brother a pass:
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/msnbc-turns-black-man-gun-obama-rally-whi te-man
HappyLib
@henry: If I had a nickel for everytime a conservative brought out the picture of the one black guy at the rally.....I would retire a rich lady!!
sycodon
If you had a nickle every time you made an incisive comment you'd have...a cup of coffee...at 7-11.
HappyLib
@syco: What a righteous burn. The only problem? You would not know an "incisive comment" if it bit you. Oh, I buy coffee at StarBucks not 7-11 you redneck.
FlashHarry
using military terminology and using images of crosshairs are very different things.
palin knew exactly what she was doing. like beck, limbaugh, et al., she walks a fine line with her dogwhistle language. it was only a matter of time that someone would move from threat to action.
gwerfil
Camper speaks the truth. This sick game has to stop.
Thank you.
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