Re: FYI - Australia

It represents a concern, one I am sure any gender doctor in those two
countries - and beyond - must feel. The threat has always been there,
especially in the United States where big religion would fund such an action
I suspect. All they need is one person and some money to roll out their
agenda - and they would be free to do so.

The real issue still is like the Buffalo case of long ago - that a person
cannot legally consent to SRS. If a person does, than that person can be
deemed insane and the consent voided. My bet is that I could pay off our
mortgage and live comfortably if I but made the call...

My bet is also that someone will.

This year or next. Either California or a strongly religious state, Utah or
West Virginia. Many judges would be delighted to fine that we are crazy,
regardless of any evidence presented. Then appeals and years pass...

The Vancouver Clinic was scared when one post went back to living as a
person in Vernon, eight years after the op. 8 years seems to be the
favoured
time, it seems.

We are not as safe as some assume. Even a few bottles of Tylenol can foul
up major companies or a rumour that their logo is "evil" (Proctor Gamble).
One case like this, well funded by... Farwell or someone similar (the
groups that were posted here a few days ago), could effectively block SRS in
North America.

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I'm sure Alex is being well looked after, he's a ward of the state and
so the governments accountable for his welfare. I doubt they would have
proposed HRT without looking at alternatives.

SRS is under attack in australia at the moment, Alan Finch an umm MTFTM
seems to be trying to stir up trouble, i read one of his comments which
suggested that the reason they couldn't find many happy post-ops was
because they'd all killed themselves. Anyway he seems to have caused an
inquiry into a gender clinic. I think it will pass though.

Suffering for the sake of identity

A catalogue of broken lives is beginning to emerge
from a government-funded clinic that for 28 years has
referred almost one person a fortnight to undergo
radical sex change.

GRAEME HAMMOND reports
Herald Sun, 28 March 2004 pages 86-87
Melbourne, Australia

As MANY as 600 people, a quarter of them women, have
undergone sex-change surgery since 1976 as part of a
contro-versial method of treatment offered at the
Gender Dysphoria Clinic at Monash Medical Centre.
The methods embraced by the clinic have been banned
for years at some of the world's leading hospitals,
after being described as "sex-uallobotomies", and are
at the centre of legal actions in Britain and
Victoria.
Although sex reassignment surgery is hailed by
Aus-tralia's transsexual commun-ity as the answer to
its prayers, its sternest critics are some of those
who have undergone it, only to regret it years later.
Many of those who requested and under-went the
amputation of their genitalia, believing it to be a
solution to then problems, now say they have suffered
irreparable mental and physical harm.
Gender dysphoria, also known as gender identity
dis-order (GID), has been recog-nised since the late
19th cen-tury as a condition in which a person yearns
to be the op-posite sex. It is listed medi-cally as a
psychiatric disorder and is thought to afflict as many
as one in 3000 males and one in 100,000 women.
Australia has an estimated 5000 transsexuals.
GID has long been a fasci-nation for psychiatrists Dr
Trudy Kehnedy, 67, and Austrian-born Dr Herbert Bower,
89. In 1975 they founded a dysphoria clinic and moved
it to Monash in 1989.
Though the clinic is at the epicentre of treatment of
gender dysphoria in Aus-tralia, attracting two to
three new cases a week, many from interstate and New
Zealand, it exists as no more than a single small
room, with a part-time clerk within health offices in
Clayton. All consul-tations with Drs Kennedy and Bower
are held at their own homes, in South Yarra, and
charged to Medicare.
It is the approach of Kennedy and Bower that is at the
heart of concerns over the clinic. Disgruntled former
patients and some medical professionals fear the two
psychiatrists are sacrificing the care and counselling
of patients to pursue an ideo-logical agenda that
attri-butes the cause of the prob-lem solely to
genetics.
Among experts in the field the cause of GID is a hotly
contested subject. Despite its classification as a
mental ill-ness, its roots are widely seen as based in
bio-psycho-social influences, the complex inter-action
of genes, hormones, parenting and role-model issues,
sexual abuse and psychological disorders.

The Monash clinic's psy-chiatrists take a rigid
app-roach, arguing vehemently that it has solely a
biological, genetic cause, sourced to genetic error or
an onrush of hormones in utero.
In interviews with the Sun-day Herald Sun, both
strongly dismissed sugges-tions that psychotherapy
could offer any help in treat-ing the problem. They
say the only role of such therapy is to help patients
as they ap-proach surgery.
But they admit their theory - or, as Dr Bower calls
it, a hunch - is not proven.
"Nothing is known defi-nitely," Dr Kennedy said. "It
needs more research."
Neither is swayed from their view that surgical
reassignment - the removal of genitals and the
makeshift construction of a vagina in males, the
removal of breasts, internal organs and the addition
of a poor imi-tation of male genitalia in women - is
anything but the best treatment.

The possibility that their cherished theory may yet be
disproved is immaterial. "We have no choice," said Dr
Bower. "Knowing it's the best treatment, it would be
unethical not to operate."
But, disturbingly, the clinic has never conducted
re-search on the long-term out-comes for its patients
to prove their theory. They con-cede two patients have
been "dissatisfied" with their treatment, but say
every other patient in the clinic's 29 years has been
happy.

DOCUMENTS released under Freedom of In-formation show
that Kennedy and Bower know little of what has
happened to most of those who have undergone a
surgical sex change. An official review of the clinic
in 2000 reported no outcome data was available.
Follow-up usually ended six weeks after surgery. Dr
Bower concedes the Dr Bower concedes the feedback was
historically "lousy", but better now.
"Patients disappear," he said. "But I think we have an
implied feedback. If they were unhappy, they'd
re-turn."
Bower claims the clinic knows of the state of
two-thirds of recent patients, most of whom are happy
or contented. Kennedy claims she knows half of all
patients.
Dr Kennedy says the clinic has no funds to carry out
long-term research on patients. "It's their
responsibility to stay in contact, not mine," she
said.
She likened sex-change sur-gery to abortion: "When
people have it they want to move on, get on with their
lives and forget about it," she said.
. But former patient Alan Finch, who revealed his
dis-astrous eight-year switch to a female. life,
helped by hor-mones, breast implants and genital
amputation, on ABC TV's Australian Story in
Sep-tember, says the clinic stands condemned by its
lack of long-term research.
"Where are all these patients?" he asked. "They admit
that a third to a half have vanished. Have their lives
been improved, or have they been ruined? How many of
them have simply taken their lives because they
dis-covered that changing their sex didn't change
their lives?
"We have nothing but com-passion for the transgender
person. They are depressed, psychotic, confused
people. They need psychiatric help, counselling and
anti-depressants, not the removal of their penises."
Mr Finch's own decision to revert to life as a. man, a
deeply painful and traumatic process, came only after
he sought psychotherapy to probe and understand the
origins of his confusion.

"Sex surgery is a way for a person who hates himself
to reinvent himself," he said. "But after the surgery
you've got nowhere to go, just more surgery.

I was suffering a psy-chosis and I re-covered from
that. I proved their theory wrong. When did it become
appro-priate to treat a psychosis with surgery?"
Mr Finch is fiercely critical of the clinic, which, he
claims, pressures patients into sur-gery and wants to
ignore those who recover from their gender identity
disorder.
The airing of his story has attracted other regretful
patients to come forward, and he has now helped form a
self-help group, the Gender Ident-ity Awareness
Association, to give them a voice and support through
meetings and an infor-mation website. Mr Finch, who is
suing the clinic over his treatment, says doctors are
providing inadequate care.
"These patients are vulner-able and need to be
pro-tected," he said.
"The broader issue is whether gender reassignment is
appropriate at all. This is the only psychological
dis-order where patients dictate their treatment. It
is no differ-ent to anorexics asking their doctor for
liposuction and being granted it."
Dr Kennedy rejects these criticisms, insisting she
makes it difficult for patients to receive surgery. "I
keep point-ing out other ways. I tell them surgery may
not necessarily be the best thing," she said.
But former patients and the clinic and their relatives
tell a different story. Among them:
A MAN who suffered a break-down after his marriage
ended at the age of 50 and began seeking solace in a
cross-dressing fetish.
"On my first visit to Dr Bower he told me I was a
transsexual," he said. "I was severely depressed. I
was like an addict wanting a fix, but they never
challenged me, never investigated my past. They
offered me no alterna-tive to surgery, and urged me to
stay in close touch with the transgender community,
which only reinforced my feel-ings.
"After the surgery they weren't interested in me. Why
does anyone go to a psy-chiatrist? You want them to
investigate you to put you right. They effectively
told me I was this far and they'd take me further."
He said he now lived as a man, but his appearance had
made him a laughing stock.
A YOUNG woman who sought help from the clinic to
understand why she hated her body and wanted to become
a man. During her first 30-minute consultation with Dr
Kennedy, she was app-roved for a bilateral mastectomy
which she had three months later.

"I'm happy I had it done but I was surprised she
didn't ask me why I felt this way. I hoped she'd try
to work out where all this came from, but she just
told me, `That's just the way you were born'. I can
see there were things in my past that created gender
problems, and I was searching to understand tht. But I
still don't know."

A WOMAN whose daughter 14 had several consultations
with Dr Kennedy because she wanted to remove her
breasts and live as a male. The clinic approved the
surgery, although the patient has now decided to defer
it for several years. "I attended every session," the
mother said. "They didn't try to probe her background
to understand the root cause."

A leading Melbourne psychiatrist who has a number of
transgender patients said this week he did not believe
Monash's gender clinic was offering patients adequate
care. He said surgery was an inappropriate treatment.

"Surgery done to fulfill a psychotic belief would be
quite improper", he said. "I recommend my patients
don't return to the clinic.
"I think the whole area needs to be reviewed by a
group that is more representative of the medical
community and includes those other than enthusiastic
proponents of this type of treatment."

But Dr Ruth McNair, a GP at the Carlton Clinic,
supports the Monash gender clinic supports the Monash
gender clinic.
"They offer one avenue of treatment and that's OK with
me," she said. "It's a very biomedical model and they
don't have the social support and counselling measure
some patients need. But it's not the only place to go
to."

This is the most damning possible case for the imposition of Surgery On
Demand. If anything, patients like this Alan Finch person should be
screened out, but obviously there is no way all those who would be
adversely affected by surgery could be identified prior to their surgeries.
If however, one looks at the lives of those who have gone through this
successfully and are happy with the results it more than counters any
negation by someone who is manifestly unsatisfied. I do feel that a careful
exploration into the patient's gender issues followed by monitored hormonal
sex reassigment and an extended period of RLT leading to a second level of
counseling prior to SRS is imperative for a satisfactory surgical and
socially appropriate result.

Hugs,
Sandra

Willow

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For once, at least, we agree totally. Surgery on demand is not an answer,
and what we need are better ways to sift out those who will not benefit.

Willow

Well, it was posted by you...

Yes, there area some "Christian" counterparts to the ACLU, and in some
cases, they have gone against transsexuals. But I am not sure they would
take on a case like this, as it would only have an isolated effect. You
see, SRS is well established as the proper treatment for transsexuals. And
I imagine, when it comes down to it, that this case will turn out to have
involved false statements on the part of the "victim."

And I wonder when you will decide to do so. Of course, that is a clearly
bogus legal theory, as there are far too many examples of people who have
successfully transitioned. At best, you could prove that those who approved
you for surgery were incompetent, but then you would have to prove that you
never lied to get surgery.

My bet would be it will be you.

Nah, probably Canada.

Yes, and you have, what, about three more years til that magic number?

No, they couldn't. The procedure is too well accepted medically. An
attempt could be made, and an individual doctor or therapist could be taken
to the cleaners (or their malpractice insurance company) but no, your
fantasy is not going to happen. I mean, think, you are talking about one
isolated case versus thousands of successful results.

Again, it is clear that you are right to not practice law.

--
Jennifer Usher

You have one person, who can become a rallying point for conservatives, but
in the end, it will be hard to stop SRS. Thousands of successful surgeries,
weighed against one person who probably should never have had surgery, and
who I bet will have turned out to have lied to get it.

--
Jennifer Usher

It is a very slanted article. I imagine several former patients my claim
regrets just to cash in. And I will be that the case of the man who had SRS
after his marriage fell apart probably fudged his story more than a little.
That is a classic red flag for therapists. I doubt they would have approved
him without his have lied more than a little.

--
Jennifer Usher

There have always been, and probably always will be those patients who lie.
Some doctors are able to verify certain aspects of their stories, but if
they are not married, and their parents are dead, this can be difficult. Of
course, some doctors are simply better at spotting liars than others. A lot
of doctors depend on gut feelings, and sometimes a good actor can slip past
them.

--
Jennifer Usher

As far as journalism goes, it was rubbish, almost an opinion piece. The
reference to SRS as "genital amputation" really seems like
sensationalism. I'm normally suspicious of conspiracy theories but i
really think this article was written with the intention of encouraging
anti-SRS beliefs.

I can't understand why some people can't just mind their own business. I
just read a forum full of insults against TS people. I sympathise with
those who transitioned back, but why should their mistakes autmoatically
invalidate me? I really don't like this whole debate, if i were going to
spend my time fighting for something i'd rather it be hunger and war
instead of nosey people.

I haven't eaten meat for over 5 years now. I've never made a big fuss of
it, i don't advertise it or try to push it on others, but i'm contsantly
amazed at the people who are offended by it. It's almost compulsive the
way that people try to argue about it and talk me out of it. I don't
understand why people are compelled to do this, but i'm really reminded
of that when i read these arguments against transsexuality.

Some of the reasons people go on rampages like this is because they can't
deal with their own issues or they're filled with some holy missionary zeal
to forcibly "convert the heathens". It's as much about power over others as
it is about the "mythology of conventional wisdom". It's arrogance fueled
by pride fueled by ignorance. And that ignorance is fueled by religion
which brooks no contradictory thought processes.

If you want to stop the power tripping ..be sure to vote for people who
think and act for equality and the protection of individual rights and not
cookie cutter thought or action based on superstition.

Hugs,
Sandra

Almost? It is very much an opinion piece, or at least that is how it should
have been labeled. Clearly, whoever wrote it had an agenda.

Because people who are bigots will find justification where they can. I
have read the accounts of a couple of "ex-transsexuals" who were "healed" by
religion. Now, personally, I believe that God can heal, IF He wishes to.
But in both cases, it was clear, even to a layperson like me, that the
"former transsexuals" were not. They had issues with fetishtic
crossdressing, and ego-dystonic homosexuality, and had clearly sought a sex
change for the wrong reasons. I am glad they avoided a serious mistake, but
I find it disturbing that they are willing to lie, even after being
confronted, about such a serious issue. But in the world of conservative
churches, a story like that can be a gold mine. I remember some years ago,
there was a young man who had a compelling story of having been a Satanic
ex-priest, before he found Christ, and became a rather talented Christian
comedian. Unfortunately, his ministry was destroyed when a Christian group
became suspicious of his every more elaborate tales of his time serving the
Dark Prince. Turned out the whole thing was a fabrication At first he
tried to deny the charges, but he finally was forced to admint the truth,
and he quickly faded from the scene.

--
Jennifer Usher

Rarely. I wrote them, so I know what they say.

> All you ever do is put people down.

Obviously, you don't read all of them.

--
Jennifer Usher