Talk about Newsnight

I WORK FOR JOBCENTRE PLUS. THIS MORNING WHIL ON PHONE WITH A CUSTOMER, I ASKED HIM WHAT SORT OF JOB WAS HE LOOKING FOR. HIS IMMEDIATE REPLY WAS "ANYTHING OTHER THAN MCDONALDS".

I'd be very surprised if the OED did anything other than record a word once it reached a certain amount of usage, rather than to take the inclusion of a word as an opportunity to make any kind of social commentary or engage in discrimination against companies or individuals.

To have any form of lexicon be beholden to companies or individuals when a new word, commonly used in everyday language, is at all disparaging towards them, leads us down a particularly slippery road. Freedom of the press must surely allow dictionary editors the freedom to include any words that society has adopted.

There is no disgrace in hard work. People who choose to work (because in our society there is a choice) should be encouraged. The EDM is not about McDonalds stature as an employer but rightly about the dignity of the employee, wherever they work.

Why should we let another large corporation affect our culture in an artifical way. Mcjob is a term used, and the Oxford English dictonary should record contemporary language. Names are not given if they are not deserved! This is now just more advertising for McDonalds!

McJob was term coined by Douglas Coupland in Generation X to define a dead-end, menial, low-paid job suitable for slackers. There are still millions of these jobs around and yes, McDonald's still offer them. They can petition all they like, but until these jobs disappear the term will survive.

Worked in McD's for two years. Was given next to no training, and within a week was getting called to come in on my day off and getting sent home early (with no pay) on a day it wasn't busy enough.

Was subjected to their carrot-and-donkey personal development policy. Constantly told I was going to be getting training, overtime and promotion and the only thing I got was the occasional overtime. Would be penalised for being 1 minute late, yet there was no penalty for them when I was forced to go home without pay. Morale was non-existent, the managers were highly unprofessional and petty towards each other, hygeine was abysmal and the treatment from abusive customers was almost intolerable. The only reason I stayed was it was the only job that fitted around college and offered enough hours to give me the money I needed.

When Ronald McDonald (played by a chap who used to be on "Double Dare") appeared one day to entertain kids, we were forced to take our breaks outside as he was in the staff room preparing himself all day! So much for treating staff well!

One thing I liked was that when one of the head honchos came, he walked around the car park picking up litter, mopped the floor and showed me a quicker and cleaner way to do my job. I haven't seen that anywhere else. As for the word McJob being removed from dictionaries, that is a highly questionable PR move. It had entered the public domain even before Douglas Coupland wrote Generation X and is an affront to a dictionary of their standing to be asked to change it.

McJob was term coined by Douglas Coupland in Generation X to define a dead-end, menial, low-paid job suitable for slackers. There are still millions of these jobs around and yes, McDonald's still offer them. They can petition all they like, but until these jobs disappear the term will survive.

I never worked for McDonalds but I did work for Tesco many years ago after finishing school. 'unstimulating low-paid job with few prospects' would accuratly describe my experience in the service sector. We all have seen the recruitment ads for McDonalds & I can honestly say I'd rather be jobless than 'want a job with that'.

Is there no end to the hubris of McDonalds?

Whether it is listed in the Oxford English Dictionary or not, the term McJob is routed in our collective consciousness.

Do they really belive that by organising a petition, they can change this? Remarkable!

Ronald, a tip: never complain, never explain.

Is there no end to the hubris of McDonalds?

Whether it is listed in the Oxford English Dictionary or not, the term McJob is routed in our collective consciousness.

Do they really belive that by organising a petition, they can change this? Remarkable!

Ronald, a tip: never complain, never explain.

i worked at burgerking for two summers while i was student about 10 years ago. 'mcjob' is EXACTLY the right term. the thing i rememeber about it most was the super rigourous time and motion obsession of every level of the management, it is a factory system - thjere is an exact amount of time that burger takes to defrost, cook, roll down the belt, get made into a sandwich (with exactly the same amount dressing each time - i got chastised for putting 5 instead of 4 pieces of tomato on a whopper once!), get packed and go down the shoot to wait to be packed (look - it's imprinted on my memory!). we had regular visits from regional manager who would time the separate rationalised cooking, cleaning etc processes, and our shop manaher was in trouble if we were too slow. it was funny in a way, b/c i was studying marx and weber at the time - if only they could have seen it..... we were also regularly searched (for stolen cash/goods), and there were the wandering hands of one of the managers all over female staff - but our shop manager certainly was not interested in a HR issue like that - so long as it wasn;t slowing him down! wages were super low, £3.10 an hour in 1995 as i remember, it was pre minimum wage....
people like your interviewee should just stop pretening these jobs are anything else. this dictionary stuff is just PR nonsense.
what annoys me however about your interviewee is the bottom line fact - about refusal of these copmpanies to address working conditions. for those for whom it's just a stop gap like me we move on and have an important experience to remember. but for those for whom this kind of work is what they can expect (and there were a couple in the branch i worked in) the conditions need to be sorted. your interviewees dodging of the basic question about unions was disgusting. that's why it's a mcjob. and i don;t just blame the companies there - it's the unions' fault too for failing to organise people in this most 'flexible' part of the economy...

Whether you use the label 'McJob', another label - or indeed have no label for it - these jobs exist, in increasing numbers.

They are exactly as described - minimum wage, tedious, often unpleasant jobs as servants to the wealthier classes.

Such workers are faceless, interchangeable, expendable and replaceable resources - to the profiteers exploiting them, they are 'things' not people.

Unfortunately, companies for whom the 'cap fits' are only seeking to change their image - not their attitude.

‘McJob’ has been in the English language for at least twenty years, much of it in dictionaries. What accounts for the timing of McDonalds’ action NOW? That’s the real story waiting to be told. The CEO said that the initiative came from McDonalds workers: Why did they suddenly become concerned? Of course, this all may be some clever PR guy’s idea of free publicity, since it provides ample opportunity for the CEO to say how nutritious the food is, how wonderful the work conditions are, etc. So I wouldn’t be surprised if McDonalds orchestrated the campaign specifically with that in mind: Many informercials have the format of the Esler interview, in which the product defender is presented as initially wrongfooted but then makes up ground by providing thoughtful, conciliatory answers.

By the way, McDonalds has got quite a job ahead of it – a ‘Big MacJob’! – if it wants to purge English of all its traces. ‘McJob’ was coined by US sociologist Amitai Etzioni. But there’s also ‘McDonaldization’ (to refer to McDonalds as a general social and business model) and ‘McWorld’ (as a generic term for US transnational influence), both of which may be used more widely by academics than the public.

I worked for McDs on a couple of occasions, the first for a few years while at college then latterly to earn a second income whilst working full time with a bank.

Both times I've enjoyed the flexibiilty to work various shifts, giving me the opportunity to earn extra cash when I need it, and work varying days each week to fit around the rest of my life.

Admittedly, the pay isn't the best - but then is any part time work while you're at college?

A final point regarding career prospects. My brother also worked for McDs whilst at college/uni and was promoted to shift running manager by the time he turned 20. This gave him valuable management experience and helped him to land a fantastic job when he finished uni - he was earning £60k a year by the time he turned 25.

I have been working with McDonalds.
And I can not complain. I have been treated fairly.
But I am unable to live with the money they are paying. The jobs should be done only from students and not foreign workers.

TALK ABOUT NEWSNIGHT
"Gis a McJob"

Concerning BBC's article about McDonalds.

I don't like bad name calling on any level. But still I prefer Burger King. It is something about the buns at McDonalds, the bread turns me off. In my opinion, the Whopper at Burger King is a better meal.

A good nick name for McDonalds being used is, Micky D's.

TALK ABOUT NEWSNIGHT
"Gis a McJob"

Concerning BBC's article about McDonalds.

I don't like bad name calling on any level. But still I prefer Burger King. It is something about the buns at McDonalds, the bread turns me off. In my opinion, the Whopper at Burger King is a better meal.

A good nick name for McDonalds being used is, Micky D's.

Whatever its origin might be, the word is now an established part of the language and we can't just change definitions to suit aggrieved companies or individuals.

Maybe in the future it will gain other contrary or diverse meanings to add to the dictionary in the way e.g. that 'wicked' or 'gay' have ... and maybe it won't.

Aha…

Mr.Esler,

I remember McDonald's opening in the Haymarket, London in the late 1970's and wow what a difference big beef, le frits and McMilkshake made to our wastelines. In those days the product range was new, exciting and quickly became the market leader. Today we have forgotten that success and now concentrate on the fast food epidemic and our appalling appetite for the instant delivery service. The job in this industry is apparently reflected by those that frequent these establishments and could be compared to those that watch products on the conveyor belt as part of the quality control process. It is now a family ritual to take les enfants and the parent-chef to the fast food home as the treat to save on cooking and washing utensils. It is part of our popular culture. In truth there are many other similar jobs such as cleaning that have to be done by someone. McDonalds is a business that simply offers a very visible presence of such work and in today's world it is nearly all about how everything looks. Is it a fair reflection of society yes; is it a fair reflection on McDonalds, no.

Aha….
Mr.Esler
I remember McDonald's opening in the Haymarket, London in the late 1970's and wow what a difference big beef, le frits and McMilkshake made to our wastelines. In those days the product range was new, exciting and quickly became the market leader. Today we have forgotten that success and now concentrate on the fast food epidemic and our appalling appetite for the instant delivery service. The job in this industry is apparently reflected by those that frequent these establishments and could be compared to those that watch products on the conveyor belt as part of the quality control process. It is now a family ritual to take les enfants and the parent-chef to the fast food home as the treat to save on cooking and washing utensils. It is part of our popular culture. In truth there are many other similar jobs such as cleaning that have to be done by someone. McDonalds is a business that simply offers a very visible presence of such work and in today's world it is nearly all about how everything looks. Is it a fair reflection of society yes; is it a fair reflection on McDonalds, no.

This is very alarming indeed. Spin from politicians is already beginning to significantly alter the perceived meaning of certain words. [See the ridiculous usage of the word 'learnings' as a substitute for 'lessons'.]

Television programmes like 'Friends' introduce rogue words into the language. And the worst invader of all, corporate 'Newspeak' is making positively Orwellian changes to the English language. 'Whatever'.

If the corporations can decide on the meanings of words in the dictionary then we have handed over control of our most precious and valued resource, our language, to un-elected American global corporations.

I noticed a Father's Day card this week which read 'From your favorite son..'.

So when Apple tell us to 'Think Different' will we be forced to stop 'thinking differently' to the Yanks?

Antony (above) is absolutely correct. The OED is apolitical, it is a highly respected lexicographical work whose purpose is to chart the development of the English language and accurately record changes in its use, etc. Whether the word 'Mcjob' is pejorative, derogatory or offensive to McDonalds - or indeed MP's - is irrelevant, it is clearly in use and thus merits a place in the OED. To bow to pressure from McDonalds would set a very sorry precedent in every respect

Is it not a sad day when this is all that can catch the imagination of our politicians or those at the “Big Mac” company. In reality it matters not one jot with regards to whether or not people choose to eat in any of their establishments but it does matter in that what is does do, is that it adds colour to our language, which has always adjusted to the times and fashion.
Note, our language is English please and should not be subject to the whims of a foreign company or body, be they American or not.

I was unfortunate to work in a McDonalds. I managed to stick it out for 3 weeks before I quit.

They treat you like slaves by callign you a "crew member" i.e you can be asked to do anything the manager deems fit; like cleaning the bottom of the mens toilet doors when the restaurant was still open. (My experience as a young women)

They do provide lunch but you can not even start to make it until yoo clocked out for your half hour, then you had to make it up (you werent allowed one anything that was ready) before you could go and sit down. This usually meant a 15mins sit down on an eight hour shift.

Or the wonderful late shifts when all the cleaning is done by Crew members who have just worked a minimum of a 6 hour shift. You leave about 3.30am in the morning and sometimes they would have you back at 6.30 for opening.

It had to be one of the most demoralising jobs I have ever had and I was paid £3.50/hr for it. (1997).

Would never let a child of mine work for such a heartless and souless corporation.

I don't agree with the McJob comments. I have worked in McDonalds as have my wife and son. When you are a teenager you need, discipline, training, guidance, health and safety and leadership and McDonalds gives you all of this. My time in McDonalds steered my career towards being an extremely successful business man and helped me to achieve job satisfaction and rewards substantially above my expectations.More people have their first work experience in McDonalds and other quick service restaurant buslness's than anywhere else, in particular business people, athletes and perfoming artists and go on to be successful in their chosen careers. Derogatory comments about McJobs will discourage young people and probably deny them the success that they may have been able to attain had they not been put off by such comments about McJobs.

As an American professor of English, let me say that the word "McJob," as my students use it, refers more to the employee than the employer or work atmosphere or work future at a McDonald's. McJob means, the kind of job anybody-- as we say in America, "the average person"-- can get and do quickly, without a lot of waiting, without a lot of special training or credentialed education for the job itself (which is why teenagers, etc., seek it out). A McJob is one you take to fill the job-seeker's felt need for immediate work & salary, and using the term tells the listener that the speaker wants everybody to know that his or her McJob is just a job to fill a lack, but certainly not the speaker's ultimate goal.
So, drop the emphasis on McDonald's as some crummy kind of employer--the term McJob is used very differently over here.

I have to say that it is a part of my CV that I would rather forget!

In some ways, it probably did me a lot of good in that I realised pretty quickly that I didn't want to 'toss burgers' for a living!

I did lose loads of weight in the 6 weeks I worked there though - couldn't bear the thought of achieving such superlative levels of acne through eating the products!

You'd think McDonald's would know after the McLibel case that sometimes not rising to the bait is the best tactic - but then again it makes for entertaining journalism!

TALK ABOUT NEWSNIGHT
"Gis a McJob"

Concerning BBC's article about McDonalds.

I don't like bad name calling on any level. Jobs that pay little and offer little opportunity for advancement are unfortunately existent.

The economics of a capitalistic social system could use additional padding. That entails a better design to the social system. When needed services exist there should also accompany subsidizing of that persons income. That is a ethical social concern that should come into being.

Micky D's is also a nick name being used for for McDonalds.

In the United States the issue of immigration and criminal border problems. This issue can best be resolved if the lower paid occupations were ethically subsidized.

There is a fine line between need and greed. That is the border that is being illegally crossed.

If McDonalds really wishes to purge itself of negative associations, the only answer is total rebranding, a complete change of menu (vegetarian only?), a new business philosphy (completely ethical and non-profit making) and of course a new name. 'Flying Pigs' perhaps?

Giving someone a kick in the teeth (when they are down) is now known as a McHand.

HAHAHA That is capitalism!!

The Oxford English Dictionary has a moral obligation to include entries that are becoming or have become ever present in the English language, and should continue to do so unhindered by 'The Corporations' and legal restriction.
Even though I don't agree with the prevalence of slang and the way 'proper' English has deteriorated over the last decade, I do think it's great that the English language is so creative and can ebb and flow with the way communication and the people change.

I've had a series of Mcjobs. I knew they were low value, my bosses knewthewere value, so did the customers.

I worked, got paid, went home.

No shame in it, but not an awful lot to be proud of.

Mcjob isn't degrading - just accurate.

It would be good to get one of these ignorant MPs on the programme, put to them the points about the apolitical and impartial nature of lexicography, and follow up by explaining to the MP that our language belongs to us, not to them or their sponsoring corporations.

I have read Fast Food Nation. It amazes me how concerned McDonalds on this occasion listen to their staff at the derogatory term of "McJob"

Strange they never listen to their staff on Union representation etc.

I find it somewhat disingenuous that Steve Easterbrook can speak of decent wages and work conditions at McDonald's when he makes a very healthy income as CEO of McDonald's in Britain (by the way, contra McDonald's "transparency" talk, his salary is hard to dig out on the Internet). His cavalier talk of dropping into a McD's once a week with the kids "after ballet or swimming," sounds like one of those obvious pitches by the rich to portray themselves as ordinary folk. Meanwhile, we all know his allegiance is to shareholders not to lowly cashiers and burger flippers.
"McDonald's Corp. CEO Jim Skinner received compensation the company valued at $13.4 million in 2006," according to Business Week figures.
Last December, Skinner and Easterbrook described a new operating system for Europe that (they say) improves food quality and reduces food and labour costs to some degree. Anyone who thinks the burger-flipper will get a fair share of the McDonald's pie from these guys is dreaming.
From the infamous "McLibel Case" that ran through the late eighties, nineties and beyond (in which a judge ruled it was fair comment to say that McDonald's "do badly in terms of pay and conditions") to a McDonald's franchise in Surrey fined some years ago for using child labour, to the bulk of first-hand anecdotes above, the McDonald's record is not pretty.
Easterbrook's pat answers in this interview sound similar to his earlier absurd protestation that McDonald's is not part of the obesity problem in Britain. Let's hope things are improving; however, the separation between word and actuality is still extreme -- and McDonald's has a long way to go before the popular conception of a "McJob" loses its pejorative connotations.

I worked for a few skinflint employers as a lad and later. McJob sounds like the response we used to make about such people.
"The work is hard,the pay is small,
So take your time and kid 'em all."
Incidentally Friedrich Engels noted that in his time, around 1844, that go-slow was the common response to exploiting employers. Nothing changes.
Bravo the OED

only would an offensive based organisation of air headed elitests encompass such a derogatory term into a `past its sell by date` mind numdingly irrelivant book,which plays and screams to the earth,`WE ARE THE INTELLIGENCIA`,i do believe amun himself has shown this group of bookworms that almost all the intellect they have gained is irrelivant to earth.go to gods myspace raveramun. do not remove this,ok.you know who i am.

McJob..it is what you do after you have eaten a McDonalds isn't it...!

But Menus have changed..great price tastey chicken salads..several ice cream choices... sandwiches of several varieties of meat...

They even made a burger taste like lesbian fanny...and that inspired "CunnySoeur" a potential billion dollar market of pussy juice tasting beverages in bars...due to make more money than red bull...

Golden M think...rumouredly "De bono" got his out of the box thinking from McDonalds ...he has lectured to many companies...and the street Golden M marketing games continue to be good fun...

And the idea of a stakeholder society came from McDonalds too..

We all remember the effect the opening of McDonalds had on Moscow and the McAcadamies are internationally reknowned...

Michael Schumacher nearly had a golden M on his brake light... fast food for tastey rear ends...

McDonalds is great place to observe and redesign Manufactured components processes and food technologies ...

The best burger they haven't yet released locally... the SteakHanoViche: a culinary translation of Russian working class values into tastey expressions of 21st century economic idioms: raspberry jam..for jammy people, cheese...for people with cheesy humour, lettuce..for the eager servants, black pepper ..for the hot dark dudes, golden crumb chicken...for the financial chickens with golden crumbs...

There was even a rumour people could get into Eton through McDonalds... and the upstairs afternoon capacity might have been used for teaching society and international characterisation customs and media studies using cartoons...and they could team up with Montessori schools to offer education for all ages.... of all kinds...in a humourous less kingly serious way...

McDonalds has wifi...you could even book a holiday there...

But all it is lacking is beans News papers magazines and TV...

They play great music ...and there is one in most tourist towns across the world even in Luxor even in Windsor ..a great place for learning practical languages...and for meeting women....

But Most sandwiches offered around town are healthier and more interesting with a lighter mix with quicker queues more drink varieties more welcoming atmospheres and nicer decor... nicer security guards and staff...

Subway offers the best deals but there are lots of self mix stores... and with a light blue refit that would the quicker cheaper more contemporary way...chique not clowniche...

You just ask Lady McBeth!!!

Benedict in Bournemouth

McJob..it is what you do after you have eaten a McDonalds isn't it...!

But Menus have changed..great price tastey chicken salads..several ice cream choices... sandwiches of several varieties of meat...

They even made a burger taste like lesbian fanny...and that inspired "CunnySoeur" a potential billion dollar market of pussy juice tasting beverages in bars...due to make more money than red bull...

Golden M think...rumouredly "De bono" got his out of the box thinking from McDonalds ...he has lectured to many companies...and the street Golden M marketing games continue to be good fun...

And the idea of a stakeholder society came from McDonalds too..

We all remember the effect the opening of McDonalds had on Moscow and the McAcadamies are internationally reknowned...

Michael Schumacher nearly had a golden M on his brake light... fast food for tastey rear ends...

McDonalds is great place to observe and redesign Manufactured components processes and food technologies ...

The best burger they haven't yet released locally... the SteakHanoViche: a culinary translation of Russian working class values into tastey expressions of 21st century economic idioms: raspberry jam..for jammy people, cheese...for people with cheesy humour, lettuce..for the eager servants, black pepper ..for the hot dark dudes, golden crumb chicken...for the financial chickens with golden crumbs...

There was even a rumour people could get into Eton through McDonalds... and the upstairs afternoon capacity might have been used for teaching society and international characterisation customs and media studies using cartoons...and they could team up with Montessori schools to offer education for all ages.... of all kinds...in a humourous less kingly serious way...

McDonalds has wifi...you could even book a holiday there...

But all it is lacking is beans News papers magazines and TV...

They play great music ...and there is one in most tourist towns across the world even in Luxor even in Windsor ..a great place for learning practical languages...and for meeting women....

But Most sandwiches offered around town are healthier and more interesting with a lighter mix with quicker queues more drink varieties more welcoming atmospheres and nicer decor... nicer security guards and staff...

Subway offers the best deals but there are lots of self mix stores... and with a light blue refit that would the quicker cheaper more contemporary way...chique not clowniche...

You just ask Lady McBeth!!!

Benedict in Bournemouth

How typical of Polly Toynbee to complain that 'only a tiny percentage of employees go on to top jobs'. Only a wet-legged liberal like her could imagine that everyone should be a boss and live a bosses lifestyle. Each McDonald's outlet has one boss and many staff - how on Earth does she think they could *all* be bosses?

I had a McBurger once, and never since. The 'bread' seemed to be made of foam plastic and the burger tasted of nothing at all. The cheese had a bitter flavour and the whole thing was awful. How can people eat this trash? The staff were pleasant though.

The definition appears to be misunderstood from how I've always heard it used.
It's not a comment on the people that work there and have careers there at all, or a comment on McDonalds and their working practices.
It's simply used when you get an easy, possibly dull, job for which you need no qualifications with no intentions of climbing the ranks but just as a stop-gap till you get either qualified or something better.... even if that never happens.
If you think your career is a burger flipper.. you don't have a McJob.
It just so happens that McDonalds have the practice of putting 'Mc' in front of things that made them the easy source for the slang.

i am very surprised at the coverage given to McDonalds, it really felt like a PR pitch rather than ann interview. No searching questions about its policy of sourcing its supplies, exploitation of suppliers, lack of fresh ingretients etc. Almost as if the BBC has accepted that this is the norm for high street food and so let's not even mention the rubbish that is served. As well for a programme that should represent the more detailed side of a debate it is amazing that there was no mention that Mcdonalds is not a "restaurant". That is the NcDobalds statement of their high street outlets. How many people in this country would say they are going out to a restuarant and go there. They serve poor fast food and should be described as a take away.

The McDonalds International Dictionary ...??

Every visitor could contribute their own words...to the exciting McDonalds International Dictionary
...a real competitive reason to visit ...they must have one already for their deals... but also customers would love to contribute with winning words themselves...

Eg

A Humidifier: a person who enhances esteem through personnel differences...

Privilige: the ability to ignore economic responsibilities for the purposes of individual gain

Companionability: the ability to assess the potential reciprocity of future discussions into the panderistique

An Anglican: a facetious man who doesn't like his own humour...

Government: the abuse required to get people to go away...

Feminist: someone whose diet excludes men...someone who has to cheapen herself to go to work...

Exclusion: the state of brain anticipating the detection of your ex in the street

Inclusion: the desire to beat up everyone similar to people you did not like before...

Responsibility: the use of animal hyper activity to sack people and reduce the bills...

Sanity: a technological administration integration used to keep track of youth recovery progress....

Elder: a person dumbed by feminist drugs...

An MP...an economic stooge of sufficient gourmlessness not to realise he does not know what he is doing!

To husband: what women do to look after their eggs....

To wife: to fail to comprehend why a women must be paid for...

a chompschizo... a method of eating

a POC...another idea for a Keira Knightley movie

Perbushokavia...42 uses...
Blitzois...
Privicide
Russianality

Like Call My Bluff but for real we use the words they way we do... here in Bournemouth there are people from every country and every county every walk of life ...and it would be great motivation to visit to beat the OED with your own contemporary socialist language ...Collecting great new words and phrases from every town and every age of visitor from any kind of company and every kind of intellect

Nice: Nominal Illegitimisation Competitive Economics...

With language from other countries too it could be sold and extremely good fun...

Doing these jobs is damaging to your mental health I am stuck working in a chip shop. I will never be able to afford a mortgage ill never be able to afford to play for my kids there are no more challenging jobs in our area. I spend so long with my brain switched off I find it harder and harder to switch it back on. People turn to DRUGS because these MCJOBS make them crave oblivion. My situation has made me consider SUICIDE.
Language and labels really do not matter but people do. If we are to continue to educate every body to such a high standard we should ensure challenging jobs are available for them. I didn't need to spend 8 years in higher education to do what I do.

Well I have seen the program, and I just have to say a few words.

I am a graduate from one of the country's top engieering university's, have a pretty decent job and just about to move into my first bought home on friday. Eleven years ago I got my first job at McDonald's.

By the time that I left three years later to start two years of voluntary service for my church, I was 19, a Shift Running Manager running upto 30 people on my own, responsible for thousands of pounds in takings every shift and the health and saftey of of the hundreds of people who walked through the door of the resturant just to name a few of my responsibilities.

When I started University on my return , I went back to McDonalds because they were the only people that would let me only work 3 hours on a wedensday afternoon from 3pm to 6pm because it fit in with my University work. To top that they were the only ones that would give me weeks off whenever I wanted just because I had a project to do, or exams that I needed to revise for.

They were also the only ones to give me any grants while at Univeristy (one thousand pounds to help me in my final year).

While looking for jobs the principles that I learnt in my management training were everywhere I looked. My wife is doing a management certificate from the OU at the moment and most of it I learnt when McDonalds put me thorough the training I had when I was 18.

Time and time again, those in the know (those with businesses or in upper management) tell me that if they can poach a manager from McDonald's they will as their training is one of the best. Before they dramtically put up management wages they had a hard time keeping those they trained.

Now they are not perfect, which large employer (or any) is? But facts sometimes gets warped by public and media perception.

Those you know who only lasted hours or days at a job at McDonald's probably could not cope with the pace of the job at the time they did it. To be honest most teenagers wouldn't.

Oh and in the last restaurant that I worked at all but one of the workers or "crew" went to college or university with the majority going to the latter.

McJob?...

It made me, and continues to do so.

Surely its about time the OED was banned and replaced with a government approved Nu-speak dictionary. Not only would this remove any confusion about the correct (government approved) definition of McJob. I'm sure there are many other definitions which need to be corrected such as 'Iraq', 'war', 'victory', 'justified', 'WMD' 'evidence' etc.

I am 48 years old and worked for McDonalds for over a year 2005 - 2006. I was grateful for the job as I was treated very badly following an illness in a previous job that I had worked at for 13.5 years.
I was not only ill but had lost confidence in myself.
I was taken on as “Front of House Manager and Maintenance”
They were very good employers, they don’t discriminate at all. Not on sex, age or anything else, unlike many other jobs!.
My only criticism with this type of job is they can not guarantee hours longer than 2 weeks ahead. While I personally had no problems with consistent hours there were some staff on shifts that had a lot of hours one week and virtually non the next.

The pay is good and the privileges are also good. I don’t understand why we knock these companies.

I was proud to work for McDonalds, and despite my oldest son (23 years old) who thought I could do better I would work for McDonalds gain.In 2005 I one store employee of the year, I have the glass trophy ontop of my TV it is one of my proud moments and achievements. I now work for the Ministry of Defence.

McDonald's was my first job. I then worked at ASDA, stacking shelves, and thought I was in some sort of workers' paradise. Unstimulating? Yes, unless stimulating means running round on greasy floors. Low paid? Yes. Few prospects? Unless you want to become a manager, yes. All compounded by the general lack of respect for you or your employment rights.

The other point is that you can't ask the OED to change a definition because you don't like it - the OED reflects how people use words, not what it thinks about that usage. And a McDonald's lobby trying to change it is simply another example of that kind of corporate power-wielding which so many people hate.

I work for Starbucks! a modern day Mcdonalds in my opinion. I can say its the best student job I have ever had, staff are treated fairly and training is fantastic.

Dec

I once heard someone on the radio describe his job this way: "That summer I had a job at... well I'm not supposed to mention names but they paid the McMinimum wage."

Your McJob piece - I was surprised at the intellectual snobbery behind the piece. Any useful job deserves respect, whether it's stacking shelves in a supermarket, cleaning cars, or in Gavin Esler's derisive phrase 'flipping burgers'. You were so anxious to bite McDonalds that you forgot about the legions of people who can only handle simple jobs. Your piece had no balance.

mc donald should be ashamed of offering mcjobs to people. until such menial jobs disappear, the term persists in its usage. the new economy, as it is called now, has rendered the poor helpless.

“An unstimulating low-paid job with few prospects…” This definition of McJob is absolutely correct. Although I have not worked for McDonalds but I have for Pizza Hut. The definition says it all and I think it should remain as it is rather then being disputed by the bosses of these exploitive catering companies. The aim main for these “Mcjob type companies” is to improve their services by reducing labour costs. In other words they aim to save labour costs as much as possible and put more stress on the lower level workers. I have worked under oppressive managers who only demand their workers what to do rather then working as part of the team. In the end the workers work extremely hard and the services improve and all the senior level managers get their rewards. But what about the team who worked extremely hard? What sort of prospects do they have?

Ode to the Worker

If you work and do your best you'll get the sack like all the rest. But if you laze and bugger about you'll live to see the job right out. The work is hard the pay is small so take your time and sod em all. Cos when your dead you'll be forgot so don't try to do the bleeding lot. Or on your tombstone neatly lacquered these three words Just Bleeding Knackered.

Oh one thing I didn't mention in my earlier post (52). When I started I got free life and accedent cover. After working for 3 years I had free health insurance which came in handy when I ran a marathon and messed up my knee and was refered to a doctor who works with the British Olympic team.

If I had stayed there one month more (that would have taken me to five years service) I would have had free dental cover. (regardless of the hours I worked)

There was an earlier post (56) about unless you go for management then there is no prospects in McDonald's. How is that different from any other job? When you move up you usually take on more of a management role whether that is people or products etc. I don't know of anyone in my time of working there that was discouraged from going further in the company, infact the opposite.

There is a very strong culture of promoting within and you can see that if you stay there long enough. On my second stint there, one of my store managers was actually one of my crew members from my first store when I was a manager!

In any job you have to have a vision of progression or else it doesn't matter where you work, it will not be satisfying and there will be few prospects.

In this world you create your own prospects with what you've got.

How this for a deal with McDonalds? They stop calling chips 'fries' and the rest of us forget about McJobs.

One of our local Labour MPs, Clive Betts, the same one that I recall lost his job in the whips office not too long after he was accused of misusing his contacts to gain a visa for his Brazilian lover to come to the UK as his researcher, was on Radio 4 yesterday defending Macdonalds and the virtues of the "mac job" I'd be very interested for Newsnight to check the register of MPs intersts entries under his name

How may I help you today?
You want to know what Mcjob really is?

McJob one step above unemployment, just.
It's a dehumanized culture with scripted dialog a uniform with a blank body in it. its people as robots.

This bland corporation, this soul less production line. with identical McUnits world wide is concerned that the customer might perceive that McDonald's isn't a Mchappy place and this could adversely effect the company's Mcprofits.

Only a McPsychopath would think that changing a dictionary would change how people think about Mcdonalds. They could create a McDictionary I suppose (thats McScary).

It is not just McDonalds, with this drone culture, they are just a universal example they embody the concept, can you imagine McDonalds changing?

Sorry I can't think about this any more it is too depressing. I might get McSuicidal

have a nice day !

I had a McJob in '94 at a bookshop - The Book Warehouse - in London. 500 quid for a month, 6 days a week, 8am until 6pm every working day. Work out that rate of pay! Didn't have to flip burgers though.

This is nothing more than a " Tempest in a Teapot "

I have worked for the company for 18 years and despite pay increases I am not on much more than the minimum rate for my job, largely due to the fact that as minimum wage rates were introduced, they did not offer me any respective increase.Hence people promoted long after me are on the same wage. Its of course a very different story for salaried staff as they are looked after. Hourly staff are seem as temperary, and are treated third class (after customers). The job is most definetly as the dictionary describes it.They work you to the bone then complain when you are ill. They offer very little benefits at all.

Hi I worked for McDs for over 7 years, mostly as a manager and although far from perfect they don't deserve their reputation. I am now working for a pub company and I would not say they are any better or worse. People want burgers, beers, coffees, etc so stop knocking those who serve them and don't assume that because they work there that they are stupid. They are probably smarter than you. It is well known that McDs have a great training programme although its implementation is down to the managers of each store, I am sure it is a similar story with every big company in the industry.

As for the term McJob, if people use it then it should be in the dictionary and if that offends people then they need a thicker skin.

To all the moaners about McDonalds, except of course the unfortunate staff who are trying to scratch a living from the company, consider this: McDonalds may very well be right. And I believe that they are right. This term should be removed from the OED. Furthermore I know a great way to get 'McJob' removed. It's very simple and completely foolproof.

Everyone stop eating that filth. Ronald will hang up his creepy costume and disappear overnight.

The word, and the concept, both originated at McDonald's, regardless of who coined the term.
Unfortunately, the concept has spread to other corporations in the US.
Regardless of our education and skills, we are all subject to "careers" which offer no training, no future, and no money.
You either work for them or you sit at home watching TV commercials for schools which promise, "education for the jobs of the future."
I have two college degrees, but still they offer only McJobs.
That's modern Capitalism.

English is a living language beyond the power and control of any individual or corporation.

Right or wrong it is popular usage that will decide what a Mcjob is.

I would be very surprised to learn that McDonald's has complained about the term "McMansion," which is also in common usage.

It's simple, though the guy from McDonalds avoided the question. The Oxford dictionary reflects the way our language is used; it is NOT a guide of how to use the language. The McJob entry can only be changed when the public stops using the term and it nobody has heard of it, until then the entry stays.
Seems to me just another cheap publicity stunt on their behalf.

worked at mcdonalds 17 yrs ago, got paid £1.80 per hr, which was approximatley the price of a big mac at the time. How many of them do they sell in an hour? need i say more

I worked at McDonalds as a student from the age of 16 to 19. I have to say with complete sincerity- I enjoyed the experience.

The pay was horrendous . The hours could be long and you would smell of the food when you finished a shift. Also virtually everything in the kitchen had sharp/hot edges left exposed that often left scars.

Putting all that aside - there was a great atmosphere. During busy periods you would become an efficient member of a team. Most employees would take pride in their work and in meeting the needs of the customer.

For me the job represented a rite of passage. Similar to other low-paid part-time student jobs - it taught self-sufficiency, good work ethic and how to interact as a team.

The term would not have become a poular one if it did not resonate with the ideas, perceptions, and experiences of the people who use it. The company is undoubtedly a victim of its own success. If asked to name a 'fast food chain' most people would say McDonalds. The fact that the Mc'PR team have prefixed every product available in the Mc'resteraunt with 'Mc' is not without its irony. The same catchy prefix that helped make its products iconic, is now being used to undermine it ... and this is not the only example. I have seen graffiti stencils saying 'Mc'Murderer' around cities in the UK.

I think the most appropriate phrase is 'Todays empires, are tomorrows ashes'.

I am 18 and have worked at McDonald's now for just over 6 months. In that time two people have been promoted to managers and two of lads I work with are going to be starting manager training soon.. so much for no prospects.

Though i have to agree the pay isn't great being paid just above the minimum wage and there are managers not paid a lot more then me per hour. However taken into perspective fundamentaly the job i do is not necessarily the most challenging job in the world so pay in that respect is fair.

Thirdly unstimulating? I can honestly say I'm never bored at work always something to do. Also it is a job that allows you to make friends very quickly as you work as part of a team and i enjoy going to work and look forward to going.

Finally McDonald's are very flexible i bet you couldn't find very many jobs that will only let you work 1 day a week furthermore can choose only to work evenings during my exam period. On the other hand i do agree with the previous comment that only being told when you're working 2 weeks in advance can be annoying

I worked at McDonald's for three years. I totally agree with the Oxford's definition of the word. Just look at their record of labour turnover and ask yourself why people leave the company. Because there are not enough opportunities of advancement, they tend to hire students, ethnic minorities who are discriminated on elsewhere and may leave when they finish their studies or when their visas expire. As a result,they become champions of ethnic diversity by default. When it comes to the job stations as they say, If you are unlucky and work in the kitchen, you may find yourself banished to the 'dive' washing up. In areas like the West End, it's a nightmare to say the least. When it's not busy, you are forced to clock out and go home even if you are not ready for it. They have an on board computer system that tracks takings compared to wage costs. They won't bate an eyelid to ask you to go home, all in the name of being nice. But when you clock out, your wages stop. I could go on and on

i worked there 20 years ago with a few friends from college all but one of us went on to "proper jobs" with better prospects, i work for a bank and i'm completely bored and unstimulated and have no future, another joined the police and 15 years later is still a PC, one became a nurse and is now a staff nurse, and one set up his own business and is doing ok, we still all meet up and chat about our experience with mcds with quite fond memories. oh the one that stayed with them? He's now a franchisee and owns 3 of them........funny how things work out.

i have worked for mcdonalds for about four years now and you would think that my loyalty with the company would pay off. But my shifts have gotten worst now i work an average of 5 hours a day and that is surposed to be full time, i havent got anywhere up the so called opportunity ladder with the company. but that never seems to happen managers tell bare faced lies to their crew and dont even bother to help sorting out problems you may have with your job. so there for i totaly agree with the mcjob definition and will not be signing the partition

My friend works at a McDonalds in North London. She routinely gets booked to work an 8-hour shift and gets sent home after 4 or 5 hours, being told they don't need her any more. Today they sent her home after 2 and a half hours. It costs her one hour's pay to get the train to work. They only pay her for the hours she works. If she's sent home early at their request, they don't pay her for the hours she didn't work.

She complained to Head Office a few months ago and the branch treated her better for a while. Now they treat her the same or worse. Last Sunday, 20 members of staff were sent home after one hour because there was an electrical outage at the branch and it had to close. She'll get paid for one hour. She was told this was "company policy".

She's 20 years old, from one of the new EU accession countries. Vulnerable young foreign workers being exploited? By McDonalds? Surely not...

Frankly, if this is their policy, I don't think the OED definition goes far enough.

The oxford dictionary got it right with its description of a low paid dead-end job with few prospects, I worked for Tesco stacking shelves and who could say they actually enjoyed their jobs? The hours are long, poor pay, bad atmosphere, favoritism need I say more?

Working for Tesco is just as demoralizing and soul draining as flipping burgers in McDonalds, I think McDonalds should shut up and accept the fact their McJobs are unstimulating.

the reason mcjob should be removed from the dictionary is not a pr stunt. it is derogatory to people like me who have worked for the company for 10years and worked their way up the ladder - therefore the truth is not the same as the comment that says no promotion prospects. As a store manager i have promoted plenty of people with no qualifications but with common sense and many other great attributes you dont learn at school. This is not about the company this is about all the thousands of people who work there and enjoy their job. I do get paid well, yes you start on minimum wage - as with alot of other companies but you can quickly work your way up if you are hardworking and trustworthy.
it really annoys me when people say this is a description of mcdonalds - it is not a description of me or of 95% of staff at my work. thats why we all signed the petition.

I currently work at McDonalds and can honestly say that i have signed the 'petition to change the definition'. in my opinion, the 'mcjob' is only low paid if you want it to be, everybody starts off on the minimum wage if you are a crew member, and you have the oppertunity to excel within the company, with 65% of business managers starting off as crew members themselves. i have worked for McDonalds for 3 years and have already had the promotion from crew member, to staff trainer, to floor manager, to shift running manager. next promotion? next year to salaried manager. constantly recieving oppertunities for new PDM's including HR and security, this job or as i see it, career, sets you up for your next chosen path in life with other employers impressed with the training and motivation McDonalds sets upon its employees. say if you worked on a biulding site...would you be able to progress to a site manager in as little time as i have? now tell me that this is a low paid, dead-end job.

After starting in Mcdonalds part time just over a year ago when i was still at school on £4.25 an hour, I thought i would stick it out for a few months as i really didnt enjoy it at first, After a while i then began to feel a part of team and have made some great friends within the store, Its not all just burger flipping we have alot of social events also! After about 10 months i was promoted to a 'Staff Trainer' where basically i train up any new starts to a good level, and the wage is £5.55 an hour, now after just a year and 2 months of working for Mcdonalds I'am being promoted to a Shift Running Floor Manager and currently going through my course (Which i think the wage is £7 odd per hour), I think this will be valuable managment experience to put on my CV, 17 year old manager responsible for up to 20-30 staff and their health and safety not to forget the customers and also dealing with £1000's of pounds in takings every day.
McJob eh? not so bad!