User talk:Jimbo Wales

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Jimbo Wales (talk | contribs) at 16:53, 23 November 2005 (repasting all the stuff I had copied out :)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

I copied everything to a file on my local machine to edit.

You can leave new notes here in the meantime no problem. :-) --Jimbo Wales 20:28, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

File:Jimbo che red white name.jpg
Hasta la wiki siempre!

(Old stuff cleared out.)

Wikicities.com | My Website

Did you come here looking for something fun to do? Ok, now would be a good time to go speedy delete some images from "Images with unknown source" and "Images with unknown copyright status". According to the new speedy deletion criterion (I just changed it), these can be deleted on sight when they have been on the site for at least 7 days.

A "Request for Release of Information"

Jimbo, I would like to direct your attention to a legal matter over at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Thank_You_.26_Request_for_Release_of_Information. Thanks, Func( t, c, @, ) 04:34, 18 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Have you seen this ?

Greetings. Very curious. MutterErde 10:11, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Very amusing, MutterErde is complaining about me tagging a commercial image which Jimbo personally owns the copyright in as Permission. I dont think he realises. I think he thinks I have a vendetta against his collection of nude pictures, which I dont at all, just would rather they were free pictures not ones with dubious fair use claims. Justinc 16:10, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Laugh if you want. But I don´t believe that people like you will send on this project. Deletion is cheap. I 've read , that you have asked yoúr buddies AFTER your vandalism tour. That was the point I had to laugh. But it was more a bitter laugh MutterErde 17:46, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Some examples from Justinc´s vandalism tour: "Images not used within guidelines of Wikipedia:Fair use "
[Brooke Shields] , Image:ElisaBridges1999.jpg ,Image:ElizabethHilden-0695.jpg ( Can`t believe it !) , Image:BrandiBrandtBOL1988.jpg ,
Image:Anabeatrizbarros.jpg , Image:BeatrizMarieClaire.jpg , Image:Becky Delos Santos 1997.jpg , Image:Dvd 119546d1.jpg , Image:BuffyTyler01-22.jpg and and and ...... MutterErde 18:14, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies Jimbo for this person who decided that spamming this onto your talk page was a sensible place. Would just like to point out that I havent deleted any of these images, just some links to them that didnt have any fair use justification, as they are all copyright images.Justinc 23:09, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone here who stopps this vandal?

MutterErde 11:42, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • UPDATES:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Justinc#Again:_Fair_Use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jtkiefer#MutterErde.27s_site

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Coolcat, Davenbelle and Stereotek

Hi, this arbcom case was filed against User:Davenbelle and User:Stereotek by User:Tony Sideaway

I strongly believe there is a strong disconnect between the evidence presented (/Evidence /Coolcat) and arbitrators desicions (/Proposed decision).

In a nutshell I claim to have been subject to behavior explained on Wikipedia:Harassment as wiki-stalking. I have 6 admins (at least) backing me up for this. Regardless of this it has been proposed that I be prohibited from editing wikipedia for a year.

Whilst I appreciate that you have an immense workload, and that you prefer not to get involved in arbitration cases, I would be most grateful if you would do me the kindness of looking over the case in its present state and, if you wish to do so, intervene to point out these additional matters which have not been taken into account. The reason that I am appealing to you is that I am not satisfied that all evidentiary matters have been taken into account by the arbitrators, and I would appreciate it if you would provide your opinion on the matter to the Arbitration Committee.

Thanks --Cool Cat Talk 01:52, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Jimbo, I am, of course, more than willing to discuss this matter if you like. I have confidence that the arbitration process will reach an appropriate conclusion. — Davenbelle 03:15, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Initial thoughts: I am not familiar with your case, but here and here, it appears that you are intelligent and dedicated to fixing the "references" section, using the right HTML code. However, here, you use incorrect English grammar: "The opinions towards abortion is mixed." However, here and here you exhibit GOOD English grammar -and some inappropriate language. I do not know what to make of it?? Kate's Tool here says that First edit 2005-02-04 08:07:12 and Total edits 11663 and Distinct pages edited 2537 and Edits/page (avg) 4.60 ...very impressive! Also, I know Tony Sidaway somewhat, and I think he is level-headed and mature. I would trust whatever he says. Also, here is a random diff, which leads me to believe that you really do want to contribute to the Wiki-Encyclopaedia in a positive way. Well, that's what I can see on the surface.--GordonWatts 03:18, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Miscelaneous thoughts:
cool cat reverts vandalism = good--GordonWatts 03:39, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Ibid. Good for cool cat--GordonWatts 03:43, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Adding links is good.--GordonWatts 03:46, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Ibid. = good--GordonWatts 03:47, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
WE looked at edits - now, let's look at "talk" & social skills: Cool cat admitted he made a mistake --good. --GordonWatts 03:49, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
More talk page diffs: Looks level-headed and mature--GordonWatts 03:51, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Initial Conclusions: Cool Cat looks a little bit excitable, and human, but I don't fully trust the ArbCom's Fascist restrictions placed on him. I have no knowledge of any ArbCom members except Neutrality, who is intelligent and hardworking -but also a little bit (in my opinion) selfish, thus, when I look at numerous talk and project page edits of Cool Cat and add that with what little I know about ArbCom (not really enough, sorry), I think that they are somewhat justified in doing what they did, but I would be willing to be my reputation that a thorough inquiry would find at least some overstep or abuse of power. I did not "capriciously" or "arbitrarily" come to this decision, and I have no conflict of interest; Neither ArbCom nor Neutrality has done anything against me at all. If I am shown to be wrong later, I will admit an error in analysis -and be quite surprised. Since the diffs right above are all "positive," please see my paragraph immediately above it for a few "negative" diffs about the cool cat -to be fair to ArbCom, that is.--GordonWatts 03:58, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
This is particularily disturbung; look at the restrictions they laid upon cool cat. Unreasonable. If he is that bad, ban him from editing for a year -period.--GordonWatts 04:02, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Davenbelle also makes good edits.--GordonWatts 04:07, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
He also is not afraid to get reviewed, hinting that he has nothing to hide.--GordonWatts 04:08, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Davenbelle also has social skills to debate without yelling. Good so far.--GordonWatts 04:10, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
However, Dave also made a very unusual deletion here??--GordonWatts 04:12, 24 September 2005 (UTC) Mistake -that was his own page: He has a right to do so.[reply]
He is polite, even when disagreeing here also. I see nothing odd here about Dave.--GordonWatts 04:15, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
But here and here Dave labels things vandalism, even when they are clearly edits of differeing interpretations. That is quite odd!--GordonWatts 04:15, 24 September 2005 (UTC) CORRECTION: Dave reverts things that are merely a difference of opinion; Sorry about that -I misread. However, did you have consensus or policy or some other good reason for reverting? Still looks odd, lol.--GordonWatts 21:11, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Dave looks like he is doing a good job here in helping shape the article. OK, folks, you will have to sort this out yourself, here, as "UNcle Gordon" doesn't get paid enough to settle disputes between Martians and Venusians, and Cats and Dogs, lol -even Kool Kats, OK?--GordonWatts 04:18, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time to comment, Gordon. I'd like to note that I abbreviate "revert" as "rv" in a few of the diffs you gave; I use "rvv" for vandalism. Also, I no longer maintain a talk archive as it's all there in the history. — Davenbelle 04:40, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome; I am familiar with the Rv & Rvv abbreviations. I trust ArbCom's decisions -somewhat but not totally, FYI. I have instince & gut feelings, which usually work well.--GordonWatts 04:53, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Gordon, I commented on the abbreviations because you characterized several "rv" reverts of mine as reverts of vandalism — which is not what I meant (those involved User:Trey Stone and another ArbCom case). — Davenbelle 07:19, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I misread that; Sorry, but I still wonder at your reason for reverting; I corrected myself above.--GordonWatts 21:11, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I do admit my first few edits were not the best ones I made. On some occasions if I saw a user making one of my ex edits I would revert them. in the hands of Tony Sideaways tutoring, I feel I have became a better editor. So I did have a rough start months ago. I prefer to be judged by my last 9000-7000 edits rather than first 1000-3000, I feel thats not happening.
I also am working on a vandalism detetcion bot currently serving on freenode for .en, .fr, .de, .es, .bg, .ja wikis. (starting yesterday .it too)
I frequently get reverted by the users I am in dispute with on many occasions a revert is unwaranted such as here [1]. I have presented extensive evidence if you have the time to review it. Just the very existance of Davenbelle's post here only about 1 hours and 15 minutes later of my post should shed a light on the level of stalking I recieve from them in my view. --Cool Cat Talk 03:41, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
"the level of stalking I recieve from them in my view." Cool Cat, Dave has a right to defend himself -whether he is innocent or guilty; That alone is not stalking. Please note also that I have strongly defended you by actually looking at much evidence -above.--GordonWatts 04:24, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Of course. But I am suggesting the speed he defends himself proves he is monitoring me. He objects to pretty much everything I am doing at this speed. See: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Coolcat,_Davenbelle_and_Stereotek/Evidence/Coolcat#Votes_that_I_was_involved_and_they_got_involved_after --Cool Cat Talk 04:35, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
"He objects to pretty much everything I am doing at this speed." You and Dave both think fast! Why the stress?--GordonWatts 04:53, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I see: You are an ExtraTerrestrial-Wikipeidan [2], Cool Cat! Ha ha... But, not joke, look into your Bible in Hebrews 13:2 -I have asked for "Otherworldly help," all jokes aside, since I do believe ArbCom overstepped their authority in your case, so chill out dude! You are correct on this one, but if you hype up, you too will be bopped by the big powers, when they see the ArbCom problems, capish? (PS: RE-read all of what I wrote above, and then comment later if you have a question/comment, Cool?) --GordonWatts 04:57, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
No stress here — I live in Bali. Have cookie, too! — Davenbelle 07:19, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think this is the place to present this long and complicated case regarding Cool Cat. All the evidence are currently being discussed at the ArbCom, which was elected by the community and who is trusted by the community. In my opinion the ArbCom should be allowed to finish it's work and Cool Cat can then appeal his case to Jimbo Wales, if he think that the decision was not reasonable or unfair. -- Karl Meier 07:54, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Agree — see you there, Karl. — Davenbelle 08:07, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree. If Arbcom's desicion is just, Jimbo will come to the same conclusion. I do not believe an extra revision will hurt. --Cool Cat Talk 00:09, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Problem on :sl WP

Hi! I'm sysop on Slovene Wikipedia and we have a problem regarding deletion on images, which don't have stated source and/or copyright tag. I'm trying to sort this problem for several months and with your new criterion (warning, 7 days, then deletion) on this would be everything easier. But several users on :sl (including some admins and bureaucrats) are opposing deletion of such activity, inspite that several pictures are almost 2 years old and uploader didn't nothing. 3 moths ago I started to work on this problem and immediatly I hit a wall. Several users stated that they have uploaded many photos and they couldn't check them all. So I went through all material and propaly taged them (if missing source, description, copyright tag). They they stated that this isn't good because there were only 3 large categories, so I asked Andre Engels to write a bot script to clear this. So the bot had sorted photos according to uploader to personal categories (this was completed almost 2 weeks ago). Some users used this to sort out (add missing info), but most didn't. So today I started with deletion of problem photos and immediatly they apposed this (even threated with de-sysoping). During this deleting today (I went through about 100 photos) I accidently delete also one properly taged photos because of bug problems on :sl WP. So I'm asking you if you could visit Slovene Village pump and add your comment on this (current discussion is here). Some of the opposers want another extend time-limit for deletion from some days or to 3 months. When I started with sorting of this problem almost half of all uploaded photos were missing some sort on info, so this could be a big legal problem. Regards, --Klemen Kocjancic 15:59, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

More Fair Use: A "representative" problem

Here, we find one hard-working editor using foul language because his uploads (without attribution) were deleted by another hard-working editor. Conflict.

Who was right here?

  • Did ZScout rightly delete per policy?
  • Or, instead, was Revolución, the other editor, not notified and given "appropriate time" to fix the problem?

This problem will recur if not addressed properly and publicly by you, Jimbo, the "voice of Fair Use policy."

--GordonWatts 04:45, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, everybody: Jimbo's probably quite busy; so, could someone tell me: Am I correct to assume that my good friend, ZScout370, should have informed the user and waited at least seven (7) days, per this policy?? Wikipedia:Copyright_problems#Instructions: "If you list a page or image here which you believe to be a copyright infringement, follow the instructions below. Page titles should stay listed for a minimum of 7 days before a decision is made."

Thx in advance for the "community feedback."--GordonWatts 01:49, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Thanks to User:BrokenSegue, who posted a note to my page, I leanred that WP:CSD now allows ZScout370 under this delete policy to do this: "Copyrighted images uploaded without permission of the copyright holder, or under a license which does not permit commercial use, which are not currently used in any article, if more than seven days old (so-called "orphaned fair use images"). Reasonable exceptions may be made for images uploaded for an upcoming article." (Additionally, I notice that at the top of this page, Jimbo just updated this policy. Oops! I had missed Jimbo's update before posting this; We all make mistakes.)--GordonWatts 03:06, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This did not fall under the unsourced image deletion policy. Outside of Wikipedia, I contribute to the Flags of the World website. From there, many of "our" images on Wikipedia came from the FOTW website. (see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flags/message/97681, if you cannot see it, I will give you the gist of it.) We, at FOTW, have a rule stating that our flag drawings can only be used for non-commercial purposes, [3] which has been illegal since May of this year. The images that Revolucion uploaded came from FOTW and did not credit FOTW for the images. Because of that, and based on the ear-ful messages I got at FOTW, I had to delete all of their images (I am in the process of doing that now) from here and also redrew some myself. And, really, because of the abuse of the flag images from FOTW and Flags.net (who I asked for permission before but I was not replied to), I had to change {{PD-Flag}} to {{Flagimage}}. While I know that this image use policy from FOTW was brought to Wikipedia by surprise, but if my guys over there are complaining about the images and want them gone, I have to get rid of it to honor their requests. FYI, another admin, Grutness, is also a FOTW member. I hope this answers everything Gordon, Jimbo and Revolucion. Zach (Sound Off) 05:20, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification sought re.: Citing my sources to ensure Wikipedia:Verifiability vs Wikipedia:Vanity_page links.

Jimbo,

I saw your post here, in which you tell BigDaddy777 that Indy media is not a reliable source for Karl Rove since they are biased against Rove. However, we have reported on some court hearings in the Terri Schiavo article, and, back on the 24th, I gave notice here that I was removing all "vanity" links -to pages where I was the editor -even though they seemed appropriate -because I didn't want to give the appearance of impropriety or "vanity promotion" -and since there were many other links that could be used in these categories.

Indeed, Wikipedia:Vanity_page makes it quite clear that "The insertion of links that appear to promote otherwise obscure individuals by pointing to their personal pages...[are examples of] edits within non-Vanity articles that may be deemed as vanity edits." (Emphasis added for clarity) Wikipedia:Vanity_page#Vanity_edits:_examples

However, since the court hearings are relevant to the article and are included without objection thus far, I felt that I should follow Wikipedia:Cite_sources to ensure Wikipedia:Verifiability, which do not use "may" or "might" language.

I asked one of the admins about it, and he said that ""The only link of yours that is proper is one that covers important legal information covered nowhere else. I'll let other editors decide if that article is important enough, but the others have to go..." [4]

So, I removed the others but kept the one where no other reporters showed up for that hearing except myself. (Also, one of my reporters covered another hearing, but I am not counting that as a "vanity" link because,, although the story rests on my newspaper website, I myself did not write that story.)

I realize that I will not be popular for this question and stance to cite my sources to ensure Wikipedia:Verifiability, but I feel that we must verify our claims in the article, and, I would be glad if anyone could find a news source other than from the paper where I am editor -I only want what's best for the article.

However, a choice must be made: Either cite my sources -or don't -and be in the wrong. (The only other alternative suggested is to simply not report on that "Terri's Law" Oral Argument hearing, but it was one of the events in the time-line.)

I am not getting paid for this, and the links to my paper benefit me none. Our reporters are not biased against Terri even as Indymedia might be against Karl Rove; additionally, I have no conflict of interest. I seek your decision here as to what's appropriate.

PS: A lot of people want to push me down and use "vanity links" as an excuse, but am I not right in assuming there is no 100% prohibition against links that "appear" to be vanity -when they are necessary to cite sources for verifiability?

Thx.--GordonWatts 01:24, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • In the interests of accuracy, I should point out that the URL for Gordon's "paper" is http://www.geocities.com/gordon_watts32313. Judge for yourself whether that's not a priori vanity. --Calton | Talk 13:03, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • That is correct, Calton, but it is a "newspaper" web site; my "personal" web address is http://GordonWatts.com -and they are quite different, FYI --You should not judge a book (or a web URL) by its cover.--GordonWatts 01:10, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • One-hundred percent complete and utter bilge, and your attempt at hair-splitting is laughable. It is not a "newspaper" or a news site, and trying to pass it off as such shows either delusions of grandeur or major-league levels of chutzpah. --Calton | Talk 05:51, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Given that Gordon's site gives out "legal information" about the Schiavo case and given that a lot of that information is biased and quite possibly wrong, it would seem risky to use Gordon's site (posing as an online newspaper called "The Register") as a source in an already controversial article. (I say "possibly wrong" with regards to legal information because (1) Gordon isn't a lawyer and (2) Gordon's involvement with the courts around the Terri Schiavo case reflect a lack of legal training.) (I say biased because of (1) the legal case he attempted to bring to the courts and (2) because his website advocates for the impeachment of the judges involved in the Terri Schiavo case, among other reasons). FuelWagon 02:28, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

So, if that's the criteria, then any newspaper that has an editorial section and opines its own opinion is automatically out. Now, I'm not saying that this web paper should be used as the sole source of info, but it does offer balance, and, in one instance, was the only media to be at the recent Oral Arg, hearing for Terri's Law when it was at the Fla 2nd DCA here in Lakeland, a "neighborhood beat" for the reporter, who lived 1 block from the place Terri's Law was argued, lol.--GordonWatts 03:06, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
No, any personal page presenting itself as a newspaper when said page is both biased and often wrong should be excluded. I thought I was fairly clear on this. FuelWagon 03:12, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

images from OS maps

What is your opinion regarding Wikipedia:Maps_from_Ordnance_Survey?

  • 10 images maximum. Is this restriction a problem?
  • Non-commercial. Problem if it applies, but what is your reading of the T+Cs? Does it sound like their "non-commercial" restriction applies just to hard-copy or to electronic copy also?

Shame if we have to lose them. TerraGreen 15:45, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well we are breaking the Ts+Cs already as the usages dont have the required blurb underneath (this could be fixed but it would look hideous and be very anti free). Also we cant stop our users printing out more than 10 copies (any users at any time) of a page that contains one of them. So they should go. Justinc 21:04, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Plus, Jimbo disallowed non-commercial images since May of this year, so no matter which way you slice it, they should go. Zach (Sound Off) 18:02, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

A note on image deletion

By the way the image deletion issue (which I called a 'debacle', which might have been a bit strong) is not because of its necessity, which on the whole I understand, but due to its implementation, which caused a lot of unnecessary anger, and more to the point, damage to the encyclopedia, which is what really matters. However it did throw some light on the power structures of the system, and the most disturbing aspect of this to my mind is not the power vested in Jimbo, but in those who take it upon themselves to carry out ill-considered orders unquestioningly, invoking their presumed mandate from Jimbo whenever they are challenged.

Now that some time has passed, I think it is clear from experience that the orders were not ill-considered and that, in fact, if anything we have been proceeding too carefully and mildly. Unless the process finishes pretty soon, I'm going to give a one month warning and then simply delete all the rest of them myself with a script working directly on the database.
Somebody else here called them 'brownshirts' and I really understand where that person is coming from - I think it's a very apt analogy. And while the issue has more or less blown over at least for me (and now seems a bit of a storm in a teacup), one of the things I felt initially is that the arbitration and other systems that have evolved here to resolve problems are quite tricky to negotiate if you don't have any experience of it. If you're an ordinary contributor that has generally avoided conflict and confrontation, then when it arises the system can appear quite impenetrable. The feeling one is left with is helplessness. If the Wikipedia 'state' is to function, I wonder if some analog to lawyers and barristers is needed - to help ordinary users when they get into trouble work through the system. In other words a voluntary group of advocates one can call on to put one's case in the proper channels (and of course keeping their own views out of it). What do others think? Or is it a case of figure it out yourself or put up with it? As WP grows I do feel this would help keep things civilised. Graham 00:08, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Endowment fund?

When donating to Wikipedia, is it possible to specify that the donation can be set aside into say, a special account where only the interest and not the principal will be used to further the foundation's projects? --HappyCamper 21:27, 1 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That would be great... +sj + 14:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed it would be great. We do not have such a thing at the present time, but it is certainly something we should consider setting up. --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings from another Randolph alum

I had no idea until I ran across the Randolph School wiki entry. Just saying hello! (class of 1992) --Korvac about 20:00, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

providers

is that place the wikimedia servers are located a single provider colo and if not have you ever considered using multiple providers to reduce downtime and/or possiblly get a better deal. Plugwash 21:27, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

We currently have servers in 4 datacenters: Tampa (Florida, US), Amsterdam, Paris, and Seoul (South Korea). --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Licensing for userpage images

Hi! I am a somewhat experienced admin here on en who are licensing my edits in the PD, and have uploaded a good deal of my own images for the project with a PD license.

I have an image of myself on my userpage, but would prefer to not allow anyone to use it for any purpose, ie not to use a free license for it. I don't see how that is detrimental to the project or its goals of building a free encyclopedia in any way.

However, citing your recent proclamations in regard to image copyright, people have been insisting that I either license my userpage image under the GFDL or that it be deleted. I find your declarations for speedy deletion of copyvio and non-free images very reasonable, and have deleted a number of images under them myself, but it seems to me to be completely pointless following the rules for their own sake to use those rules to delete my userpage image. I have also created a template template:userpage-image intended for non-free userpage images, but it has been put on templates for deletion.

So I am asking you to weight in, and perhaps issue a new declaration in support of non-free userpage images. Thue | talk 19:16, 11 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Also see WP:VPP#License for userpage images. I support Thue here. As I understand, the point of the "no non-free images" declaration is to make life easier for content reusers and mirrors; however, there's no reason reusers should need to copy the user space. In fact, they should probably be discouraged from doing so. (In fact, I hardly see why I should need to GFDL everything I write in my user space... but I digress.) ~~ N (t/c) 20:53, 11 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Having recieved similiar comments regarding both my userpage picture and the pictures I took at meetups (and bearing in mind the incident involving Sollog and the picture I took of Jimbo's daughter) I think I'd like to hear Jimbo's opinion on this. →Raul654 21:36, 11 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. This needs to be straightened out. I'd rather not see the entire collection of Wikipedia Meetup photos deleted, or other photos that users have uploaded but that haven't been put into articles yet (though they very well could be). — BRIAN0918 • 2005-10-11 22:48
The spirit of Wikipedia is free content and that should be done on every page Wikimedia hosts. --Nv8200p (talk) 01:56, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
It was not a "recent" proclamation that images for which the uploader has copyright must be GFDL. That has been true for a long time, and should remain true. Wikimedia believes all its media should be as free as possible. If you have a problem with that, link to an offsite image. By the way, Thue, there is no such thing as a PD license. Perhaps you should read up a little more on copyright before you start making more tags. Superm401 | Talk 18:20, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
There is no reason for content used outside the encyclopedia to be free, dependency on other servers is a bad thing, people want to inline images, and there is a {{pd}} tag that works just fine. ~~ N (t/c) 18:36, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The GFDL requirement may have been there for a long time, but Jimbo's permission to speedy non-free images is new, and people are citing it as an argument for deleting my image (Actually my photo was not taken by me, so the GFDL uploader rule doesn't even apply in this case). In any case, as argued above, the GFDL requirement makes no sense when applied to userpage images. Thue | talk 20:16, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the images tagged with this template were created before May 19, 2005. These are currently allowed to remain on Wikipedia. Therefore, the template should remain. --Mm35173 20:55, 13 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Modified Wikipedia 1.0 Rating Proposal

I don't know if it's against the rules to post this here, but here goes. I just posted a modified version of Jimbo's rating proposal at Wikipedia_talk:Pushing_to_1.0#Modified_Rating_Proposal and I thought I'd let people know so they can pick it apart.the1physicist 02:55, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Explicit image legal issues

Please check out Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images of Sexually Explicit Activity. ~~ N (t/c) 00:21, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If you think Bill Gates and Jane Fonda were bad...

...then you've never ventured into some of the pop music articles, loaded with fancruft and guarded by watchdog editors who insist upon retaining their article their way and their way only unless their hand is forced. These article number in the hundreds, but Mariah Carey and the articles for the related songs and albums. Not sure really what to do with the issue (it gets only intermitten attention from moderators, and no substantive action has been taken yet). Perhaps it just stads to reason that Wikipedia articles about pop stars just can't be of decent quality or fixed to become such. --FuriousFreddy 08:04, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia Bounty Board

Jimmy Wales,

I've been thinking for a while about starting a Wikipedia:Bounty Board, where people put up monetary bounties for articles to become featured, but where the money all goes to the Wikimedia Foundation if the conditions are met. I have a draft at User:Quadell/bounty.

It seems to me that the positives would be that it would encourage donations and encourage the creation of featured articles, and it would fill a gap - that people tend to look for a psychological "reward" when they've worked hard for Wikipedia. But my questions are: 1, Do you think there are any legal problems with this? 2, Do you think this goes against the Wiki philosophy? And 3, Do you see any other problems? (I'm asking several long-term and knowlegeable Wikipedian about this.)

Thanks for your input, – Quadell (talk) 17:40, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Jimbo Che

Besides the two Jimbo Che images, on your user and talk pages, here are the other variants I've made:

Feel free to use them throughout your CV. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-10-25 00:36

Lists of slang sexual terms standards

I recently closed an AfD as DELETEWikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Body_parts_slang_2. However, a similar(some of it is redemable as it is common knowledge and the terms are used in numerous maintream books) article Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of sexual slang had KEEP. The intro to sexual slang article is better, but the rest drifts off into O.R. just like the "article" that I just deleted.

We really need to get a standard for these, are they OK or not? And how should they be done? WP:NOR and the fact that Wikipedia is not a random assortment of info(also policy) present huge problems for such articles. I could say 656 means "sex using X and Y and position Z" and there is nothing to back it up. I just don't think this stuff belongs at Wikipedia. If one wants to search for such things, then use Google.

Hopefully, my decision will be a landmark one, so we can get all this O.R. nonsense off Wikipedia.

Any thoughs from our lovely Stewardess?(no puns impied)...this is a serious matter though.Voice of All@|Esperanza|E M 15:15, 25 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

:I think Inherently funny word is (usually) a model article for this sort of thing. Once upon a time the page had degenerated into a random assortment of anything that anyone felt was funny, and then some helpful and brave person came along and said "Look here, everything has to have a reference, period, and that's that." This was so obviously sensible that the page was immediately much improved and now (usually) is a wonderful article.

I'd say the exact same standard should apply here. Some terms are so commonly known that people may not feel that they need a reference, but then again, these are so common that finding references is trivial. Maybe you could set an arbitrary rule that any term with at least 100,000 hits in google doesn't actually need a cite, but anything less than that has to be backed up.
I hope this is a helpful idea.--Jimbo Wales 06:49, 26 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Am I the only one who is uncomfortable with User:Voice of All(MTG)'s activism in this matter? Surely the process of closing an AFD should be simply one of weighing up the valid votes as fairly as possible? Regardless of the merit of the arguments, and of the page in question (and frankly, I would have voted "delete" on this page myself), comments like "[lets] get all this ... nonsense off Wikipedia" do not convey the level of impartiality that one would expect from an admin going about his or her duties. GeorgeStepanek\talk 20:50, 28 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps Jimbo is on to something here. I already cleaned up Sexual slang after its AfD(which I also closed) before I noticed that you responded. It looks MUCH better know. And 60%+ with policy vio is not "activisim"; besides consensus=/=strict vote tallying.Voice of All(MTG) 06:49, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

one laptop per child project synergy with wiki?

Heard of the one laptop per child project yet?

How best to synergize? Be a great way to bootstrap a language's wikipedia, to be sure, though surely much more could be realized.

Each one of them there laptops'll have a passable digital camera. Could be a neat part wikifying peace and equality in our time.

Anyhoo, betcha the folks at the OLPC project would receive well some official interest from the folks at Wikipedia.

-:)Ozzyslovechild 00:48, 29 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Nicholas Negroponte is a big fan of Wikipedia and often mentions us in conjunction with his talks about one laptop per child. He quite properly regards Wikipedia as a great use for such devices. :-) --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

NOR policy update needed

I think that photos, which are intended to make a specific point, should not be uploaded to Wikipedia unless they have been previously published by a disinterested, reputable 3rd party.

Flikr.com, weblogs, partisan political web sites (dailykos, freerepublic, etc) and such are not acceptable, but commercial news organizations and commericial publishers and to a lesser extent, non-profits would be ok. There is simply too much opportunity out there to stage photos, for example:

Supporters of Candidate A take Candidate B's signs and make a big mess in a parking lot with them and leave also a lot of trash like water bottles and sandwich wrappers.... the Wiki caption for this reads, "trash left behind after local rally for B".

Clearly it's a staged photo intended to make a point. If the control parameter of "intended to make a point" is not enforced, the excuse regarding the above scenario would be "I found the trash & signs in the parking lot and merely snapped the photo". Such assertions could not be disproved, opening a pandora's box of scheming opporunities.

Rex071404 216.153.214.94 06:27, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The list of examples of this problem is not long, surely? Pcb21| Pete

Why does that matter? This is a loophole which should be closed - see talk on this subject at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) and Talk:John Kerry. Rex071404 216.153.214.94 13:37, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Y'all are trying to create a new policy where one isn't needed. All of this falls under Wikipedia:Verifiability. If a credible source hasn't identified or reported on the subject of the photograph, then any caption beyond, "This is a pile of trash someone took a picture of" is unverifiable. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:44, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I think that's exactly right. It is a legitimate thing to think about, but we have a longstanding tradition of not making up new policies to solve hypothetical problems. If this gets to be a real problem, we can address it then. :-) --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

(I deleted a few other thoughtful comments just because I'm in a major housecleaning mode.)

Fair-use images in templates

Adam Carr has informed me that you've approved the use of certain non-free images in templates. Is this correct? --Carnildo 20:32, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. I don't remember ever thinking about it. :-) --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Enough already...

Yo, dude. We get it. You're a popular fellow. Everyone likes you. People like to talk to you about "important" stuff. But hows about you clean up your talk page some? :-) Being a wiki, I would do it, but didn't know whether you kept an archive of any kind or if you simply blanked old discussion. It is getting rather long and starting to get slow to load for some of us slower users. Well, users with slower connections, not necessarily "slower users". Thanks. --LV (Dark Mark) 20:45, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Finally I'm doing it now. :-) Your comment provoked me actually. I'm going to be home in December and January (no travel!) and plan to spend a ton of time camping out on the Wiki.

Wiki-meta associations

Some have stated that an Association known as the Association of "Moral" Wikipedians is valid for deletion. Can a Wiki-association, even with some beliefs against the NPOV, be valid for Deletion? 

Canadianism 02:02, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Popularity

How popular are you as a person? Wikipedia has been increasing in popularity. By the way, I saw you on Attack of the Show on G4.

I would highly doubt Jimmy is a celebrity, getting strangers saying hi to him on the streets of St. Petersburg. -- user:zanimum
I'm almost completely unknown to the general public. To my knowledge, no one has ever recognized me randomly. I do get recognized at tech conferences at which I am a speaker and in which my picture is in the program, but I don't think this means much. :-) --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia Watch

An article posted at Wikipedia Watch declares itself to be an open letter to you. So I have moved it to User talk:Jimbo Wales/Wikipedia Watch. -- RHaworth 09:42, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#DreamGuy

Hi. This week I raised an objection to the Arbitration Committee's closure of Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/DreamGuy without attempting to form a decision; at this point the objection has been removed once by Raul654, who made the original motion to close. It seems there is no recourse for users involved in a request that has simply been ignored by the arbitrators, and I currently have no confidence in the arbitration process. A problem exists, it has not been addressed, and there is a strong indication it will continue. Could you please comment on this? ‣ᓛᖁ♀ᑐ 15:30, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ivan Gundulić

Administrator help: Ivan Gundulić article. Whether he should be concidered Serbian or not. This: [5] (in English) and these[6], which writes perfectly about his entire Serbian ancestry and this: [7] which states his life's works and Serbian commemoration. However, the newer version of Britannica (the upper-mentioned is older) claims that he is Croatian; although, it has been proven unreliable as it claims that Rudjer Boskovic was also a Croat, yet he was a Serb. What should we do? HolyRomanEmperor 18:20, 11 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

State the facts, as you did above. Let the reader judge the reliability/validity of the sources. If conclusive evidence emerges, future editors can update the article accordingly. My 2 c. — David Remahl 21:08, 11 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
That's exactly the answer I would have given. On any point of legitimate controversy, Wikipedia ought not to take a stand. Now, having said this, I would begin to wonder what caused Britannica to change their minds during the intervening decades. Quite possibly, there is some definitive research in this area which ought to be cited as well? I know nothing about it of course. --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wikisource, copyrights, guidance?

At Wikisource, we could really use some help from Wikimedia on copyright. The most urgent question is whether we can archive United Nations Security Council Resolutions under "fair use", see the debate here. However, the impact goes far beyond UNSRC. The same logic disallowing those would also apply to U.S. state laws, the Iraqi constitution, international treaties, etc. So, we very much need some guidance on fair use, which is very complicated. While "fair use" is mostly determined under U.S. common law, Section 107 of the copyright code codifies (quite unclearly) a part of this, but 107 is neither mandatory nor exclusive nor limiting on common law. Does Wikimedia have access to an attorney competent in this area who could provide some guidance?

Thanks very much,

Wolfman 15:40, 12 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom ruling

Jimbo, have you taken the time to look over Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Everyking 3 and consider the issues surrounding it? Basically, the case concluded with a decision to ban an administrator from communicating on the administrators' noticeboard, and also restricted my communication elsewhere by limiting what I can say about other admins. Mainly I criticize the decision for two reasons: 1) I was not given proper time to present evidence (I had a month, and admittedly did not use it, but I feel there should've been no rush, and I shouldn't be blamed for using my Wikipedia time primarily for actual editing instead of litigation—note that the ArbCom is always careful to acknowledge that my editing is good even if they think I have a horrible personality. I feel a temporary injunction could have alleviated any concerns about my allegedly problematic behavior while giving me time to gather evidence and discuss matters in detail with the arbitrators.) 2) I was contrite about my incivility on the AN pages, and I had clearly stopped making the kinds of comments the ArbCom objected to (partially for several months, completely for the most recent few weeks). I do maintain that the things I was complaining about were worse than my reactions to them (deeds being more harmful than words), but I fully acknowledge that I was excessive in the criticism and it would've been more constructive if it had been toned down. Part of the reason why I often reacted so bitterly was because I saw in the mistreatment of others the same mistreatment that was done to me early in the year, and wanted them to be treated fairly by our more aggressive admins. But this contrition was disregarded entirely by the arbitrators. I'm not sure why. Possibly they thought I was being insincere; possibly they felt that a case that had progressed so far had to reach the normal conclusion (a punitive ruling); possibly other reasons.

As far as other reasons go, one of them was stated by Raul in an IRC conversation I had with him: basically, my views are illogical and crazy and therefore aren't acceptable even if I am perfectly civil about them. So it's irrelevant if I apologize for the incivility; the views still need to be kept quiet. How do you, personally, feel about this notion? Another reason was more overt: they said that my comments were "ignorant" and I needed to research situations before commenting on them. I deny that they were uninformed in general, and could have offered a mountain of proof of my comments being obviously informed by the evidence of the cases I was considering; furthermore, the ArbCom is itself guilty of ignoring the evidence in three cases against me (there are numerous comments on the cases' various talk pages illustrating blatant ignorance of the matters they were arbitrating), so even if I was guilty here they'd be in no position to judge me.

I would like to hear your thoughts about the situation? This is something short of an outright appeal, just a request for an opinion from someone whose opinion counts. Everyking 07:06, 13 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think you need to delegate or something, Jimbo. I mean, you don't respond, no matter how long I wait. I understand if you're busy, but maybe your role on the project needs to be filled by multiple people. Everyking 14:02, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry to butt-in, but this must be the most hilarious thing I've seen all month.
James F. (talk) 15:09, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Correct me if I'm confused, but didn't Jimbo already delegate his dispute resolution role in this project? Kelly Martin (talk) 15:12, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
That's my understanding. Jimbo already has delegated the handling of user conduct disputes—to the Arbitration Committee. To be fair, I also understand that Jimbo retains an ultimate authority (backed in principle by the support of the Board) over Wikipedia. He serves as a final avenue for appeal with the authority to overturn ArbCom decisions. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:17, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Oh no, arbitrators are beating up on me. Fortunately I'm used to it. Everyking 19:15, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Per the note I made above, I suspect that Jimbo may be reluctant to comment on this request–'something short of an outright appeal'though it may be–because his words do carry a significant weight. A casual statement by Jimbo on the issue would be taken by many to be a firm and direct endorsement or rejection of the ArbCom's decision; such a statement shouldn't be made lightly.
As an aside, Jimbo has only made 11 edits so far this month on the English Wikipedia. Out of 34 sections added to his talk page in the month of November, he has responded to only two. One was a direct response to a question about an admin action taken by Jimbo, the other dealt with a project that could spread Wikipedia to a new and broader audience. Unless Everyking does want to lodge a formal appeal, Jimbo seems to be taking a pretty light hand at en:. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:17, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I changed my mind; yes I do want to lodge a formal appeal. I want the whole ruling thrown out and the ArbCom formally reprimanded for so blatantly abusing the trust the community has placed in it. Let's see if that gets me a response any quicker. Everyking 05:10, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I accept your formal appeal. This didn't actually cause my quicker response, it's just that I've finally gotten around to cleaning up my user talk page. It will take me 'at least 1 week, and likely 3 weeks, to be able to respond properly to you though. I am still in extreme travel mode until December 3, and after that I will not be travelling at all (if I can help it) until February.

Health of Mice

Hello, this is my first time contacting you. User:103749 attempted to create the article mouse health, not as vandalism, but as a forum page where people can come and ask other users questions about the specific topic (in this case, the health of mice). After I deleted the article, the user asked me if there is a way to create an article that can be dedicated just for the purpose of asking a question and having anyone answer it, similar to a forum but on Wikipedia. I told him that Wikipedia isn't that sort of project, but was wondering if there was a project like that on Wikimedia so I could give him a definite answer. Thanks! -- PRueda29 Ptalk29 23:37, 13 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Jimbo rarely shows up, so I'd recommend asking these questions elsewhere. That forum is at Wikipedia:Reference Desk, it's one of the best parts about wikipdia. Redwolf24 (talk) 00:10, 14 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I would imagine that 'mouse health' might make for a great Wikicities site, actually. It's a legitimate topic for discussion and community knowledge-base building, but that isn't the same thing as an encyclopedia article. --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Can this .............

Can the article "Contact Consequences" be looked at to determine if this article should be terminated, if time permits ? Just found out that you're THE Boss of Wikipedia. The article is being cleaned up by the Clean-up Task Force. I'm new to Wikipedia, looking for a guide, so that I do'nt end up in trouble unwittingly.Martial Law 06:15, 14 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Me again...

What is the deal with Wikibooks? You said only textbooks should be there, but currently most of WB is not textbooks. What about self-help, how-to-do-whatever, books? There are a lot of issues surrounding the new enforcement of policy there. Should we just start tagging modules with the speedy tag? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. --LV (Dark Mark) 16:49, 14 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Jimbo please provide some input. Wikipedia Fiction states that:
Wikibooks, Wikipedia's sibling project, contains instructional and educational texts. These include annotated works of fiction (on the Wikibooks:annotated texts bookshelf) for classroom or private study use.
So works of fiction are allowed at Wikibooks? Even the Wikipedia Wikibooks article states:
The project is a collection of free textbooks, manuals, and other texts, with supporting book-based texts, that is written collaboratively on this website.
Quite a bit of stuff is in line to be transwikied from WP to WB that does not fit under the "textbook provision". Either there is a ton of misinformation about what Wikibooks is and it has strayed from it's original intention, or you are vastly trying to change Wikibooks a long time into the development. Please let us know what we should do. Should we go around changing all the Wikibooks information, or should we go around changing all the Wikibooks? Thanks. --LV (Dark Mark) 18:59, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to keep pestering you, and appearing impatient, but we over at WB are awaiting an answer to know what direction to go. --LV (Dark Mark) 18:50, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

$100 computer

I suspect you're already aware of this project. I wasn't, until reading they'd rejected Steve Jobs' offer of free OS X in favor of open source software. I imagine it would be good for Wikipedia to see whether there is a role for us in this initiative. - Nunh-huh 03:26, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I've met Nicholas Negroponte, and he's a big fan of Wikipedia. He's on record stating that he'd like to see Wikipedia on the $100 laptop. My own opinion is that Wikipedia is one of the 'killer apps' for this device. --Jimbo Wales 06:17, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Glad you're on top of it. I can't figure out how that would work (memory and storage-wise), but as long as someone can! - Nunh-huh 06:28, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is abysmal at covering the places that this fabled laptop is aimed at — see here. All the other major encyclopedias have better coverage. - Xed 00:17, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Given every Wikipedia user is a potential contributor, an influx of new users from these underserved regions will probably improve Wikipedia's coverage of them. - Counterpoint, 19 November 2005
I agree with Xed on this point -- our coverage of the less developed world could be a lot better. On the other hand, take just about any article in this area, and compare it to what it looked like a year ago, and significant progress has already been made. This is no reason for complacency, of course. --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Personal opinion and concern

Hello Jimbo I am sorry to disturb you, as I know that you are busy and I am not a registered user. But since a while I look how an article about the Salvation Army develops. After writing in the "talk" without receiving an answer please let me tell you, that I regret deeply, that the quality in parts of the article is not very good. It's also a question what is needed in an encyclopedia article about the Salvation Army. If you like to write everything they do or have done, you can scan libraries! Less quantity but more quality would be asked in such an article. Would it not be possible that you try to get experts on such a theme? (I am not paied by the Salvation Army but have a private museum about it therefore I believe that I am allowed to give a comment.) Perhaps you wonder why I do not make the changes which are needed? Because I fear the "edit-war" from people, who think that their opinion is more important. If I do correct and try to improve the article then.... What could be done, that someone who knows a lot about such a theme does not need to fear an edit war and perhaps endless discussions? I know it will never be possible to write such an article in way, that everybody is satisfied but it should be possible to really improve an article. kindest regards C.F. PS the quality of the German version is better, this I have checked

GFDL and deleted content

Hello Jimbo, how does the GFDL handle deleted content? It seems to me that all GFDL contributions to wikipedia that aren't copyright violations themselves (or obvious vandalism too perhaps) would have to be saved and delivered by wikipedia somehow? What happens if an article exists for a few months and then for one reason or another it is deleted, doesn't the GFDL require wikipedia to in some way deliver that content to users? Just wondering. zen master T 19:03, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The basic answer is no. The GFDL does not impose an obligation to continue distributing any material. It simply requires that whatever content is distributed must comply with the terms of the license. --Michael Snow 20:18, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Are you prepared?

Greetings, Jimbo, its Master Jay. I was wondering if you, or perhaps the core of sysops, have a plan in the event of a fresh wave of attacks. In other words, is there a troll-prevention plan, or something along the lines of that. Thanks for your time. Stop icon You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you vandalize Wikipedia. (You must be thinking "it must be a bad joke.) - Don't block me.--Master Jay 00:23, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Malware

The Willy on Wheels stole the password of my previous account. I think he has trojan malware to fish out passwords with.

Suspiciously, WoW is trying to use legitimate accounts to circumvent the security against his Willy-style usernames. My old username is SuperDude115. --Nintendude 02:38, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Have you emailed this to wikitech-l? They would be well placed to look into it. --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Polygamy "Decision" was a "Summary Judgment & Execution" made without ever hearing all the facts

On 02:52, 15 November 2005, the Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Polygamy "decision" was made to push out a rare proven topic expert on polygamy, while giving free reign to a hostile proven anti-polygamy editor to misinform Wikipedia readers with propaganda POV. Unfortunately, their anti-expert "Decision" was made completely without any consideraton of the facts or fairness whatsoever. Truly, the evidence testifies (to any honest observer) against the making of this "Summary Judgment and Execution" where considering the facts had never been allowed or performed.

Could you please take a look?

Sure, I'll take a look sometime in the next 3 weeks. I deleted the rest of what you posted here, but I'll read that too. --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Poll regarding ArbComm member selection process

Jim:

Hello! I hope you're well. I want to inform you of a 'straw' poll currently underway regarding possible alternatives to selecting arbitrators (The Strawman Cometh :)). There appears to be a clear majority – a consensus, if you will – for electing ArbComm members. Let me know if you've any questions. Anyhow, enjoy, and thanks for your consideration! E Pluribus Anthony 17:30, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I will be very surprised—pleasantly surprised, of course—if Jimbo pays any attention to this. He must have a good reason to have decided to override the community's wishes and established practice—I suppose he finds the idea of the community expressing its wishes on this matter worrying for some reason. For my part, I find it worrying that he would find that worrying. Everyking 10:31, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Jimbo, please...

There is a lot of turmoil over at Wikibooks. Please see the above post of mine if it got passed over. If not you, some other member of the Board. Thanks. --LV (Dark Mark) 19:21, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Señor Wales

Hey, I'm looking forward to meeting you in January down in St. Pete. So what else do you guys do when you go to these places? Molotov (talk) 23:52, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Jimbo, from Edward G. Nilges (spinoza1111)

Spinoza1111 04:17, 19 November 2005 (UTC)I learned of wikipedia a year ago and have made some contributions, most of which survived: see the Adorno page. I find your essay on NPOV one of the most moving and intelligent things I have ever read.[reply]

I am no "libertarian". Instead, my explanation for your success is that it confirms Marx's view that the source of knowledge is the people. In a dialectic, what seemed initially to be the worst idea in the world becomes the best idea in the world.

I have long learned to look for knowledge in ignorance and love in hate for that is the way the world works in my experience. At the level of human affairs, the dialectic may work because you're talking not about atoms in a gas but intelligent and emotive agents whose mathematics is not yet fully explored or known. Thus your discovery of the wisdom of the crowd can logically coexist with our knowledge of its madness and is itself redemptive.

As a published computer author (Build Your Own .Net Language and Compiler) I suppose that I should resent and fear this form of Adorno's "Nightmare of Childhood": for my fat and it must be admitted, prolix pal Theodore Adorno, the Nazi mob was the crystallization of all the old fears of the Parzival, the upper middle class child protected from birth by Herzelied against what Wagner called "the clangor" and the mob.

I have to remind myself. These were my father's fears, from the era of WWII. I need to sort out what I fear and do not fear.

I have learned through experiences which cannot be shared when ladies are present that there are moments when the nightmare has to be taken to the crisis and Wikipedia is the crisis I have been searching for all my life, one with a theme in a major key (NPOV).

It has the nightmare potential of slavery at some future date in which people are forced to maintain wikipedia as slaves. But of course one joins today from freedom of the will.

So keep up the work you do.

I find it rather difficult to imagine a future scenario in which "people are forced to maintain wikipedia as slaves". Do you mean that you expect the Wikimedia Foundation to one day become part of a world government that conscripts workers to maintain its sites? I guess one could come up with a dystopian science-fiction story with such a plotline, but it seems rather unlikely for the real world. Anyway, a Wikipedia maintained by slaves would likely be extremely poor in quality, as it's better to have the work be done by a small group who cares about what they do than a large group who's forced to do it.
Looking at your other contributions and comments, I see that you're prone to writing lengthy essays stemming from some sort of leftist/Marxist/deconstructionist sociopolitical agenda of yours, which hasn't gone over very well especially when you try to apply it to everything from comic strips to programming languages. You'll do better here if you tone down your attitude a bit. *Dan T.* 19:50, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Spinoza1111 10:09, 20 November 2005 (UTC)I find it useful and have no plan to chill. And, having an agenda is part of being a grownup with beliefs and goals so you bet your sweet patootie, assuming you have some sort of a sweet patootie, I have an agenda. I read computer programs "deconstructively" since there is no other way to read them. As to comic strips which manufacture consent to unacceptable lives, it's high time.[reply]

Gee, I hope this place is not some fucking cult...in which new entrants are supposed to be some sort of *tabula rasa* and in which we're all supposed to be worried about making a good impression on the Maximum Leader.

The fact is that Jimbo is on to something which is going to be fucked up bigtime if it becomes "reified" in the sense of stopping thought. I'm a person and not a POV and thus I have no need to be N.

For example, the Dilbert article is today not an ad for Dilbert junk as it was before I moseyed in, and it contains a well-balancing section today, with references, which shows that there are people, like Norman Solomon, who find the Dilbert sends a conformist message. This makes the article more truly NPOV, but I had the energy to do the homework demanded by other participants because I have a POV about Dilbert.

That old stinker Marx actually believed that capitalism is one big fat POV which as a POV systematically erases any other POV, such as the POV of indigneous tribes eradicated in primitive accumulation, or the POV of the working stiff. He believed that we'd only be "objective" after the Revolution.

He may have been wrong, but basically he was interested in NPOV same as anyone else. If he had believed in the POV of the stronger, he would not have been able to criticise capitalism at all.

What Jimbo is on to is that NPOV exists and we need it. However, it is easily confused with being a dull fellow or a tabula rasa.

However, you may have a rational fear that I might be The Great Soviet Encyclopedia type of person. All I can say is that Wales' essay seems to distinguish between people and views.

As to my science fiction story, the potential for slavery exists all over the entire open source movement. As I said, the potential is in a dialectic relationship with freedom as regards wikipedia and open source.

I'm not saying "Freedom is Slavery" in Orwell's sense, or, if I am, it depends on what the meaning of "is", is, as it did for Clinton.

I am saying that information isn't "produced", it is something that comes to be known. A society in which information production is no longer a matter of paid authorship is one that has relieved itself of one more onerous task, and that's a good thing. The devil is in the details and in the treatment of people who did not contract to work for free.

Protection Tool Update

I really like the idea of multiple layers of protection. We could have:

Open(no protection)
  1. No Moves
  2. Logged in Only
  3. Logged in with edit count 25+
  4. Logged in with edit count 100+(pretty much like protection, but non-admins can edit)
  5. Protected

Numbers 2-4 are "semiprotection". This would VASTLY cut down on vandalism and would be no where NEAR as restrictive and anti-wiki as page protection. Can you get this implemented somehow? What developers could do this? Thank you.Voice of AllT|@|ESP 05:25, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Semi-Protection, Vandalism, Future of Wikipedia discussion on IRC

What's up Jimbo, I just wanted to ask if you could arrange and meet on IRC sometime with as many users from the mailing list, hopefully some developers, and many editors who have become involved in the discussion about what to do to combat rising vandalism. Several options have been discussed in both the Village Pump, Bugzilla, and highly vandalized pages such as George W. Bush, but it seems always to hit a wall. Let me know if you're available for such a meeting and I will spread the word to the extensive amount of editors currently involved in the discussion. --kizzle 01:39, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Did you get my previous note about semi-protect? I left it on this talk page...and it vanished with everyhing else. I agree with Kizzle here...its time to semi-protect.Voice of AllT|@|ESP 14:04, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it should be considered but may I suggest on-site. Marskell 14:17, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
If I may, I would like to join Voice of All in favor of a semi-protection function. The overwhelming amount of vandalism that the George W. Bush article receives needs to be preventable, and rolling back using traditional methods is no longer viable. Hall Monitor 19:48, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Just to clarify, I'm not sure where I stand on the semi-protection feature, but I do want to have a discussion over what options we have to limit vandalism, especially to such pages as George W. Bush, and to have a serious debate as to balancing what is considered "wiki" versus realistic consequences of massive upscaling. --kizzle 23:36, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I reckon it would be helpful to publish some data on how vandalism is rising (seems easy enough - just publish the total amount of time that a popular article such as GWB has spent in a vandalized state this week, and for the past N weeks). We assume that this amount is rising, and if it is, we pick a threshold (which we may well have already past) and say look we are going to have to have extra protection for this page. Data is really useful here. People have requested semi-protection of one kind of another for years, so it will meet resistance on this round too. Provide data to show what you think is happening and the status quoers will not be able to fiddle whilst our Rome burns. Pcb21 Pete 09:47, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
This has been informally done at GWB Talk a few times. I recall, for instance, checking last 250 and concluding 87% was vandalism or reversions a month ago. At times it will be vandalized 6 to 10 times an hour. Beyond question something must be done about the page and indeed, semi-protection may only really be needed there. Marskell 10:01, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
While the absolute number of reversions is important too, the most important statistics is the proportion of time an article spends vandalized (if the number of vandals increases, it stands to reason that the number of good guys increases too, thus decreasing the amount of time to revert). I haven't seen this statistic around, but maybe I missed it. 10 times an hour, with let's see a mean time to revert of 1min means that the article is vandalized 16% of the time. To me, this is way over the threshold I mentioned above. But you are right GWB is a special case, perhaps even a unique special case, so we need to be careful to avoid a slippery slope (our previous experience shows that on WP if something can be a slippery slope, it will be!) Pcb21 Pete 10:13, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

User:Jimbo Wales

Hmm.. there currently is somewhat a disagreement between User:Cool Cat (me) and User:Voice of All(MTG). The actual change isnt much.

what I propose, his proposal. Since it is your userpage, I feel you should like it and hence decide how it should look. --Cool CatTalk|@ 22:02, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, these last two wiki-links are not working. Or more specifically, they aren't pointing to any type of proposals. Are these semi-protection proposals? If so, I would love to read them. Hall Monitor 23:47, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, no we are "fighting" over how Jimbos user page should look like :) --Cool CatTalk|@ 12:36, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
This would be the best lamest edit war ever :)!
BTW, I modified the semi-protect tag too...muhahaha!!!Voice of AllT|@|ESP 13:01, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&oldid=29066466"